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Power conditioner?

O

oldcatfish

Jan 8, 2011
1,549
967
#1
I wasn't sure whether to post this in amps or here, but I think this forum is more appropriate.

I play at various churches, usually using the provided amps or in-ears (if I have to, I hate them), but sometimes I prefer to use my own. My amp works fine at home, and every venue except at one church. My amp (a Roland CB 100) will not work at the one church. The power light comes on, but absolutely no sound. I've tried it several different times, with the same result. I do have a surge protector plugged in, but it doesn't trip. The church's provided amp (a Fender Rumble) works fine, as does the lead guitarist's amp and one of the other guitar player's--they also use fender amps. But another guitar player has his amp malfunction too--his gets terrible humming/ground noise, but it does sort of work. I think it's a problem with the electrical system at the church, but I'm not sure how to solve it.

Would a power conditioner help at all, or would it be the same as the power strip?
 
#3
The odd thing is, they have had an electrician look at it...and can't find anything wrong. But that is not when the PA is running, lights are used, amps, etc.
The worship leader was talking to the janitor (they know each other), and the floor buffer machine only runs at half speed in the same room. The other side of the building--no problem, it runs fine.
 
#4
maybe they should meter the power while everything is on. Sounds like they're drawing way more then their set up can handle, which could be causing a voltage drop at the particular outlet you're trying to use. Probably something that needs a 30amp circuit is connected to a 20amp circuit. Like stage lighting or power amps.

btw, most power conditioners are just rackmounted power strips. Slightly better ones will add a surge protection circuit. Nice ones will have a voltage meter, but very few of them do anything that actually regulates voltage.
 
#5
oldcatfish said:
The odd thing is, they have had an electrician look at it...and can't find anything wrong. But that is not when the PA is running, lights are used, amps, etc.
The worship leader was talking to the janitor (they know each other), and the floor buffer machine only runs at half speed in the same room. The other side of the building--no problem, it runs fine.
Click to expand...

Ditto- check the voltage and don't use that circuit until it has been repaired. If the floor buffer only runs at half speed, it has problems. A cheapo circuit tester may show that the hot, neutral and ground are connected correctly but if the neutral has several breaks between the receptacle and breaker panel (it has breakers, right? RIGHT????), the resistance will be high enough that most things won't work properly.

Plug an incandescent light into the receptacle and see how bright it is, then go to a different receptacle in another part of the church to see how much brighter it is.
 
#6
I agree it sounds like the power. If an electrician has checked the system then problems like mis-wired outlets can probably be ruled out. A voltage meter (like the ones on a rack mount power conditioner) may show a lower than expected voltage when amps and lights on the same circuit are being given a workout.

In SE Asia I use voltage stabilizers for power amps and stage power and I often run my own supply straight from the meter I.e. the closest point from the supply into the venue. Sometimes the voltage stabilizers still can't step the voltage up to what I need (in my case 220V).

I've recently changed over from a bank of big, old Crest CA power amps to 4 Crown XLS2500 digital/switching/whatever, new generation amps and I get the feeling these are much less demanding on the supply.

Back to your problem, my suggestions are: use a meter to check for low voltage (brown out), if that's the case the breaker may have a supply cable that's too thin (1.5mm, say) or the church may be at the end of a low capacity transmission line and is just not getting enough juice from the grid.
 
#7
I had the same amp and had the same problem at an outdoor gig that was running off a generator. All the guitar amps were working fine, mine didn't.
Maybe it has a narrow band of tolerance as far as incoming power is concerned and the church has an overloaded or inconsistant electrical system
 
#8
I agree that it's most likely the power. An AC circuit tester (always in my gig bag) might show the problem and might not.

One possibility is a problem with the neutral connection between the building service and the main panel. An open neutral there can cause the voltage on the two legs of the 240VAC supply to the service panel to become unbalanced. In that case, the two 120VAC legs will still sum to 240V, but (for example) one may be 60V and the other 180V, and the voltages will change every time a load is turned on or off. That floor buffer running slow is an indicator that his could be the problem.

An LED circuit tester won't show this but a voltmeter will.

Your amp may be sensitive to overvoltage/undervoltage and refuse to power up if the voltage is out of its operating range. Old design Fender amps won't do that, but if it's undervoltage they will distort sooner and if it's overvoltage it can fry their power supplies. In the scenario I have outlined, whether you get too much or too little voltage depends on which circuit you plug in to.

Playing with faulty AC power is dangerous to equipment and personnel.
 

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