s0c9
Supporting Member
LOL - If so, I misunderstood the post... subs to me are ALWAYS FOH sound reinforcement.. subs are NOT part of a backline rig.
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I was referring to a sub for my 12/6. Just curious how much volume they add. I don't need a whole lot more, just puts my mind at ease knowing I'm not pushing the single fEARful 12/6 too much once I dump the Dr. Bass 12/6 and go back to a mono rig.
My bands last gig was Saturday and we had a hell of a PA system, so a singular 12/6 was great as a stage monitor. Now that the large PA is gone and we are going to be bare bones for awhile, I will more than likely "fill the house" with my rig. Not that I want to go back to a bass rig yelling on stage.
My bands last gig was Saturday and we had a hell of a PA system, so a singular 12/6 was great as a stage monitor. Now that the large PA is gone and we are going to be bare bones for awhile, I will more than likely "fill the house" with my rig. Not that I want to go back to a bass rig yelling on stage.
The f12 sub can be used for pa but it's not really appropriate for much but the smallest stuff...
The 12 sub has the same interior volume and porting as a 12.6. So in essence it is a modular 1212.6 - albeit the crossover should be adjusted for the 4 ohm woofer load. Personally - it sounds pretty sweet sitting either under the 12.6 to get the mid up closer to your head I'm small spaces or along side on larger stages.
I finally decided to hang onto my 12 sub. I've backlined my rig a few times on sound company jobs. (GK MB-Fusion 500). And every bassist that used it was damn! That thing is small but I love it. One guy had to try the weight of the 12.6. He couldn't believe how light it is. I pointed him to the GFS here and to GB's site...
So ... I do still have the other 12.sub cab. It has an issue in the I cut the woofer hole slightly large. I used it that way with no trouble. I install a super heavy duty clamping system from a Bag End. Here it sits taking up space ... Even with all the hardware it is Really not worth anything. So... If you'd like to see what your rig would sound like. Pull a 3012lf from the dr bass cab - I'm assuming that is what is in there of course... Make the haul to Hood River and make the trip home with a cab for the cost of gas.
Subs in my FOH are 4 PAS trapezoidal 18's and 4 QSc KW-181's... None of those would very see use on a stage...
The 12 sub has the same interior volume and porting as a 12.6. So in essence it is a modular 1212.6 - albeit the crossover should be adjusted for the 4 ohm woofer load. Personally - it sounds pretty sweet sitting either under the 12.6 to get the mid up closer to your head I'm small spaces or along side on larger stages.
I finally decided to hang onto my 12 sub. I've backlined my rig a few times on sound company jobs. (GK MB-Fusion 500). And every bassist that used it was damn! That thing is small but I love it. One guy had to try the weight of the 12.6. He couldn't believe how light it is. I pointed him to the GFS here and to GB's site...
So ... I do still have the other 12.sub cab. It has an issue in the I cut the woofer hole slightly large. I used it that way with no trouble. I install a super heavy duty clamping system from a Bag End. Here it sits taking up space ... Even with all the hardware it is Really not worth anything. So... If you'd like to see what your rig would sound like. Pull a 3012lf from the dr bass cab - I'm assuming that is what is in there of course... Make the haul to Hood River and make the trip home with a cab for the cost of gas.
Subs in my FOH are 4 PAS trapezoidal 18's and 4 QSc KW-181's... None of those would very see use on a stage...
I certainly appreciate the offer @4Mal 
I believe the Dr cab isn't the LF version of the 3012. It may be a 3012HO?? It has a lot of mid's compared to the LF, especially when running them side by side. I will need to pull the speaker out to have a look.
I believe the Dr cab isn't the LF version of the 3012. It may be a 3012HO?? It has a lot of mid's compared to the LF, especially when running them side by side. I will need to pull the speaker out to have a look.
LOL - If so, I misunderstood the post... subs to me are ALWAYS FOH sound reinforcement.. subs are NOT part of a backline rig.
Why not part of the backline? Quite a few Greenboy users run a sub with their 12/6, or 15/6. I would think this to be a good thing especially with a substandard PA and the bass needing to carry the room.
I think the nomenclature is misleading to those not familiar with the fearful ecology. You have your 1212.6 or 1515.66. As a one cab solution or the modular approach of 12.6 and 12.sub, 15.6 and 15.sub. These are not subs in the traditional FOH sense. Those boys are typically crossed out at 100 hz or less. I recall the fearful x-over point being between 600 and 800 though I built mine years ago... The response of the fearful chamber and driver combination is amazingly smooth up into the cross over range.
While the fEarfuls can be used as subs, in reality they are quite another thing.
While the fEarfuls can be used as subs, in reality they are quite another thing.
Tracking. I always think of subs as being in the extremely low, inaudible hz. However, Greenboy's subs crossover in a higher, audible frequency. At least that's what my uneducated thought process is.
the foh subs are crossed over low so they don't give their location away. Below 100hz humans can't distinguish direction to the source. You don't want foh subs honking away like there's a giant goose in the corner.
I'm not sure if I'm asking this question correctly, but when playing thru the 12/6 & 12 sub how noticeable is the crossover between the two? Is it strange to get used to on stage? Just wondering if the crossover bringing the sub essentially on & off is distracting.
Again, I'm probably not wording my question properly.
I don't notice it at all. There is no LP filter on my sub. It's basically run full range. The 3012lf is supposedly ragged up in the mi teens somewhere but by then the volume is way down. Basically it sound like a 12.6 with more headroom... Particularly when they are stacked which get's the 6 up closer to your ear.
s0c9
Supporting Member
No issue with adding subs to a bass rig.. but since I started in SR (before going to the stage side) subs to ME will always be those that are part of the PA. I have really not considered low-end ADDITIONS to a bass rig as subs...
you're over-thinking this; do the opposite, set your preamp at a good middle of the road level, then use the power amp's knob to adjust how loud you are on stage.
that way you can tweak your stage volume without changing what your preamp is sending to the PA.
if you're having to blast the preamp then turn the power amp's knob up a bit; if you can't crack open the pre without being too loud on stage then back the power amp down a bit.
this whole "find the clipping point of the power amp" gain-staging thing is silly unless you're trying to run your bass rig as loud as you possibly can on stage.
if the pre is set at a good "normal" range and you're loud enough on stage with the power amp knob set somewhere in the middle then you can stop worrying about it.
Thanks Walter! I pretty much have been doing as you described. The attenuators are at 1:00 and the preamps are at 11:00. Stage volume is nice and by no means loud.
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
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If the gain controls were meant to be run at max all the time, they wouldn't be there.
BTW, if it's a pro amp with balanced inputs, think of the "volume control" as a gain control instead of a volume control or attenuator, because it actually does set the gain of the amp channel. Gain is how much the channel multiplies the input signal voltage. More gain means the amp produces more output voltage for a given input signal, and less gain means that with the same input voltage the amp would produce a lower voltage.
Why would you not use maximum gain? A way to maximize signal to noise in an audio system is to have a signal level that is good and strong throughout the signal path without clipping, so you can use less gain in the power amp to get the sound level you want. The alternative would be to throttle down the signal somewhere upstream, bringing it closer to the residual noise floor of the system, and then boosting the signal and noise a lot in the power amp; this is not optimal.
BTW, if it's a pro amp with balanced inputs, think of the "volume control" as a gain control instead of a volume control or attenuator, because it actually does set the gain of the amp channel. Gain is how much the channel multiplies the input signal voltage. More gain means the amp produces more output voltage for a given input signal, and less gain means that with the same input voltage the amp would produce a lower voltage.
Why would you not use maximum gain? A way to maximize signal to noise in an audio system is to have a signal level that is good and strong throughout the signal path without clipping, so you can use less gain in the power amp to get the sound level you want. The alternative would be to throttle down the signal somewhere upstream, bringing it closer to the residual noise floor of the system, and then boosting the signal and noise a lot in the power amp; this is not optimal.
