have played in bands where that JBL (pair) are the front PA. Some here comment that this arrangement with a proper preamp is too 'hi-fi' for reproducing electric bass as a standalone. Your thoughts or experience?
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Powered cabinets for bass- your take?
- Thread starter 66 Fender Jazz
- Start date
I've checked Sweetwater, finding Fender Rumble in various wattage ratings, Ampeg and GKs. Had awful reliability problems in early 90s with a GK MB 112E, Traded it for present Ampeg- a rare B1 combo and am trying to upgrade from there. Carvin MB-210 last night through FOH was fine, but seeking a stouter modern standalone arrangement.
Thanks for your input.
This is a lot of initial direction help and is much appreciated. Am really out of touch, relying on old, dependable combos.
Unless you are going to go with somethng like K12's you are FAR better off with something like a Mesa head and some decent cabinets.
JBL EON's? Yuck.
We had a set of EON's a couple of years back as a "backup" set that was kept at a friends studio. Complete garbage. Running a bass through them at decent stage volumes was laughable.
There's a reason most bass players don't use these setups.
Get a good head like a Mesa Subway, or a GK and run it through a set of cabs that are tuned to run bass a loud volumes. This will give you the option to run straight into the head return if you want to run a different pre-amp. OR go direct into a GOOD PA with a decent set of subs (i.e., not EON tops alone).
JBL EON's? Yuck.
We had a set of EON's a couple of years back as a "backup" set that was kept at a friends studio. Complete garbage. Running a bass through them at decent stage volumes was laughable.
There's a reason most bass players don't use these setups.
Get a good head like a Mesa Subway, or a GK and run it through a set of cabs that are tuned to run bass a loud volumes. This will give you the option to run straight into the head return if you want to run a different pre-amp. OR go direct into a GOOD PA with a decent set of subs (i.e., not EON tops alone).
Everyone that has heard me play say that they like my tone. I guess the tone is subjective to the individual.
There should be some good music store options in VA. Set aside a weekend, go try combos, cabs with a head, powered bass cabs (if you can find one), powered pa (if you’re curious…add a sub if you have the option). Don’t be afraid to mix and match and get weird with it.
Try out some preamp pedals if you have a chance. They can potentially put you closer to the sound you’re looking for if a bass head or combo is getting you most of the way there. Might get you over the line if you’re borderline on a particular setup.
Go spend a few hours and try everything you can.
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I recently changed over from a Rumble Stage 800 to a HX Stomp XL and some other pedals into a QSC K12. I haven't, and probably won't gig either. I tried a PJB BG-450 and while it was incredibly well-made, sound and feel wise I didn't care for it at all.
If I were going to be gigging full-time, I would likely go with a Mesa TT-800 and a couple of their cabs. While I'm pretty sure that either the Stage 800 (especially with the matching 210) or the Stomp/K12 rig would be fine live, I would be more confident in the Mesa.
If I were going to be gigging full-time, I would likely go with a Mesa TT-800 and a couple of their cabs. While I'm pretty sure that either the Stage 800 (especially with the matching 210) or the Stomp/K12 rig would be fine live, I would be more confident in the Mesa.
I hope they make them compatible with a wider range of preamps.Regarding powered cabs, I was told by a rep at Gallien Krueger that they are planning to reintroduce their powered cabs next year, especially the MBP112 which was the most popular one. I know this doesn't help the OP much right now, but keep this in mind for down the road. The GK combos with a matching powered cab are a very good setup for gigging.
The GK powered cabs work with the GK Plex preamp, and a couple others (can't remember) but the signal needs to be stronger than the output on most preamps.
I dunno about the Rumbles, but I've had nothing but trouble-free performance with both GK and Markbass combos over the last 20 years. I use a GK MB112-II now - crazy loud for it's weight and size. Clear, "transparent" sound (unlike the Rumbles). I also have the powered extension cab which I rarely need.
Have a GR Aero 112. Thought about waiting for an ACT 112, but the little GR One amp, Elf, etc., etc., are so small and
easy to use, and the price difference (between amp+cab vs. active speaker) is negligible, so I don’t need one. I could see one with a little mixer in it if I did
coffee house gigs or small acoustic duos, but that ain’t my wheelhouse.
easy to use, and the price difference (between amp+cab vs. active speaker) is negligible, so I don’t need one. I could see one with a little mixer in it if I did
coffee house gigs or small acoustic duos, but that ain’t my wheelhouse.
I used a Standel piggy-back MCIIb/SAM30b and it was a 215 with 2x100-watt amps. Each speaker had its own amp. It was a bass reflex cab with 4 ports mounted vertically alongside the two cabs and with just what I'd now call that little bit of power, it was ungodly loud. I got it when I started touring with a nightclub group in 1971 and did that for 3-years. Used it for weekend gigs after I came off the road until 1976 when all my touring gear, including my 1965 Jazz Bass, was stolen.
Loved that amp because I no longer was buried by the 120-watt Vox Super Beatle amps the guitarist and keys bought. Had a Bassman amp that tried to keep up but would fart out the 212 speakers if I turned it up even a touch above #7 on the dial. I couldn't make that Standel distort at all. Salesman at Hospe Music in Lincoln, NE bragged that I could turn it all the way up and hit my low E and it wouldn't distort. So I did it! Just about shook everything off the walls in their "Bass-ment" and certainly got everyone's attention, but just like he said, there was no distortion. So I traded my '66 blackface Fender Bassman in towards it and played it that night and every other night for the next 2½ years or so. Turned it up to 5 at the club that night (occupancy (900+) and quickly got told to turn down. Had to drop it down to 3 to stop burying everyone else.
Like all powered speaker cabs back then, it weighed a ton. The head weighed almost nothing because it was just the preamp, but that cab was both deep and heavy. Good news was we typically played a venue for 2-weeks at a time (5-nights a week) so I only had to load and unload it once every 2 weeks.
You can see my Standel amp a bit from this shot in late-1971/early-1972. And that was my 1965 Jazz Bass too:
If you really want powered speakers, you might take a look at PA powered speakers in either 12" or 15". Be aware though that powered PA speakers state their wattage in Peak Watts for some reason. So their 1,000 watt speaker is actually the same as a 500-watt rms amp/speaker. Every wattage sign for PA amps, just chop the power in half for a realistic rating. Don't confuse peak-watts with the rms-watts that almost everything else uses to rate their amps and cabs. The Keys player in one of the groups I play with replaced her amp and speakers with a 12", 2-way, powered PA speaker and that worked for her. Of course, she's not really playing on the bottom of her keyboard either, so make sure that PA speaker could handle it.
A better case IMO would be to get a class D, 500- watt (minimum) or 800-watt rms amp and run two 8Ω 112's with it. I did that for a while with my medium-sized venues before I got my DNA endorsement and bought a DNS-210 cab. Now I just use my DNA-800 amp (4.8-lbs) into my DNS-210 speaker cab (handles 700-watts rms) for all indoor venues. I'll pull out my DNS-410 for outdoors and music festivals.
The 2x112 is a nice way to go with a class D amp but two might not do it at an outdoor or some large indoor venues (especially if its a long room). Having a 2Ω capable class D amp allows you to use up to four 8Ω cabs. My DNA-800 amp is no longer available since DNA closed its doors in 2023, but Mesa makes a number of class D amps that go down to 2Ω and there are others out there too. That might be the way to go. I can't imagine a time 4x112 driven by an 800-watt rms amp wouldn't be enough.
Another option is to again get the class D amp and one good 210 capable of handling at least 400-watt rms. Then if you need more for large and outdoor venues, get the second 210 and your rig turns into a defacto 800-watt 410 rig, which is really enough pretty much everywhere. I run my big Eden amp bridged at 800-watt into my DNS410 at big, wide open, outdoor music festivals and get told to turn down if I move the master up to 10:30. Good news is I don't need to lug around a 165-lb 810 cab.
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Terrific historical and helpful reply. I played the same black tape-wound strings on my 66 Fender Jazz through your same piggyback Bassman in the 60s.
I see no advantages in using powered cabs.
They are heavier, which isn't good for my back. If you upgrade you have to replace two units, the amp and the cab, if it fails you have to 50% of the unit that has failed and the other 50% hasn't. If you can't get it fixed you have to throw away both.
Same reasons I don't like combos.
They are heavier, which isn't good for my back. If you upgrade you have to replace two units, the amp and the cab, if it fails you have to 50% of the unit that has failed and the other 50% hasn't. If you can't get it fixed you have to throw away both.
Same reasons I don't like combos.
One of the very few advantages to the powered cab would be that it could be multi functional such as it could be used in the mains foh or monitors etc while running a preamp out to the mixer or even plugging straight into the mixer without preamp if your current bass rig breaks down/has issues or parts of your sound system/pa has problems.Other than that I would stick with a dedicated bass amp as it would sound best.The other things I mentioned are a bit of of compromise.Maybe you could go to a Guitar Center or Sweetwater etc and try for yourself.Let your ears decide.
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Actually I did exactly that at a low key gig a couple of weeks ago and it was fine. Used a NUX Melvin Lee Davis..
The real advantage of powered PA cabs for bass amplification is that they attempt to provide a flat, full range sound rather being voiced like a typical bass cabinet. This makes them especially useful for DB players who often need to use a preamp with piezo pickups anyway and want the amplified sound to be “my bass only louder”.
For bass guitar use, I assume most players would feel the need for some sort of amp emulation with a PA cab. At that point, today’s class D combos with ND speakers are more than competitive in price, size and weight. Players who love the sound of a clean DIed bass guitar with no processing might find the PA cabs a useful option.
For bass guitar use, I assume most players would feel the need for some sort of amp emulation with a PA cab. At that point, today’s class D combos with ND speakers are more than competitive in price, size and weight. Players who love the sound of a clean DIed bass guitar with no processing might find the PA cabs a useful option.
I like the idea of using powered bass cabs; especially with the availability of useful Class D Power Modules. The part that is missing from having a practical system is a standard for the Power Module dimensions, mounting, and plug in topography. And, I doubt such a standard will ever happen.
Meanwhile, the better Class D powered bass combos, such as the GK Legacy series, give you a powered bass cab; and, BONUS, they also have a preamp built in.
My Legacy 112 weighs in at 32 pounds compared to the QSC CP12 at 31 pounds. The Legacy 112 is properly voiced for bass guitar. The preamp is very thoughtfully voiced; but, if I really want to use one of my pedal board preamps, then I just plug into the Effects Return.
To summarize: if we got a standard for the power module specs, powered cabs could be a great way to go. Meanwhile, the better bass combos basically give you the powered cab, with a built in preamp.
Meanwhile, the better Class D powered bass combos, such as the GK Legacy series, give you a powered bass cab; and, BONUS, they also have a preamp built in.
My Legacy 112 weighs in at 32 pounds compared to the QSC CP12 at 31 pounds. The Legacy 112 is properly voiced for bass guitar. The preamp is very thoughtfully voiced; but, if I really want to use one of my pedal board preamps, then I just plug into the Effects Return.
To summarize: if we got a standard for the power module specs, powered cabs could be a great way to go. Meanwhile, the better bass combos basically give you the powered cab, with a built in preamp.
