Double Bass Practice routines for playing what you sing

[gakmen]

Hey, guys!

Here is a track of me singing a blues bass line:


My goal is to be able to play such lines on a bass the way I sing them - by ear (without "knowledge" of chords and all kinds of mechanical stuff aka noodling). The most obvious way to practice that is to transcribe sang lines which I was doing for some short time now. But I don't feel like due to such kind of practise my transcribing time will once become 0 seconds so I'll be able to do it in real time.

Are there any routines to practise that, or should I just stick with my current method and be more patient?

Thanks

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Training your ear by identifying intervals gets you from note to note. But it takes a lot of time to be able to identify the intervals in realtime. Try it with the bass slowly, first identifying by ear, then playing the interval on the bass, checking if it was correct. If you can identify the note name too, it might help you not getting lost where you are playing on the instrument.

 

[gakmen]

Thanks for your reply, DoubleMIDI. That is something I've been trying to do and it felt like it'll take forever to be able to sing and play like this pianist:


But maybe it's the only way.

A lot of masters recommend playing what you sing, but nobody tells how to achieve it - as if it's something natural.

 

[shwashwa]

just start by singing along with everything that you practice and play. if you're off, stop to fix it. after many many hours it will be natural.

 

[gakmen]

just start by singing along with everything that you practice and play. if you're off, stop to fix it. after many many hours it will be natural.

At first I thought this suggestion was misleading, but actually it makes perfect sense, since practicing chords and scales is inevitable and I can sing while doing that. Thanks.

 

[shwashwa]

At first I thought this suggestion was misleading, but actually it makes perfect sense, since practicing chords and scales is inevitable and I can sing while doing that. Thanks.

everything you play will be either a chord or a scale, or part of one (even chromatics) so just sing it all and isolate the problem spots. eventually you will hit everything. a friend of mine who can sing with everything he plays, including his improvisations (and he is very accurate), did it exactly this way.

 

[Michael Case]

Don't get me wrong, I see the value in this but, I guess I always feel like these discussions don't take into account actual singing ability or the ability to manipulate the throat, lungs, and voice to sing. I have never worked on singing, have a narrow range, feel like my throat hurts after a short time, and have even gotten light headed trying to do this. The voice is an instrument like the bass, and DOES have a real technique. I could maybe sing one or two scales in one octave on a very good day, then I need to sit to avoid passing out.

 

[shwashwa]

Don't get me wrong, I see the value in this but, I guess I always feel like these discussions don't take into account actual singing ability or the ability to manipulate the throat, lungs, and voice to sing. I have never worked on singing, have a narrow range, feel like my throat hurts after a short time, and have even gotten light headed trying to do this. The voice is an instrument like the bass, and DOES have a real technique. I could maybe sing one or two scales in one octave on a very good day, then I need to sit to avoid passing out.

cardio

 

[Michael Case]

cardio

I guess, I was a smoker for a while and that more than likely has a negative affect.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I do vocal stuff for my own practicing. You can't get off the ground if you don't do at least some basic voice technique and lessons. If you can't sing with go relative pitch it's not going to work. I listened briefly to your clip and I think you can pull it off. Just find a vocal teacher or coach to get you started. Learn how they sing with good intonation and it'll be far easier

 

[Harry D'Agostino]

Sorry for the length of this post but I feel this may all be of use to the original poster:

Singing what you play is an AURAL exercise not an ORAL exercise. If you ever hear Barry Harris or another master like that scat, it's certainly devoid of proper vocal technique and it isn't much to listen to, but the pitch only needs to be there enough to communicate the musical idea for this to be effective. Its the same working with a good producer who can't necessarily sing a tune, but they'll get a musical idea and tell you "Play this: Be de be dop be do bah"

The point being that anything that you're really hearing you should be able to communicate verbally even if it doesn't sound good. These exercises get you away from "noodling around" or letting your fingers aimlessly play some patterns you've etched into your brain. The instrument is an illusion, YOU should be where the music comes from.

Regarding the OP, I found the blues line you originally posted to be a bit vague, it sounds like you're hearing some of these notes one at a time. The point of learning the theory and nuts and bolts is not so that you can "fake" your way through stuff you're not really hearing. It's so that you can HEAR the strongest pitches and colors and get a bigger feel for where they lead. "Knowledge" of the chords is as much aural as it is mechanical.

Here's some of the ways that I practice this stuff:
-Play root notes and sing the melodies through tunes and LISTEN, get used to that relationship intimately.

-When this is very comfortable, reverse it. Sing the root notes and play the melodies. It doesn't matter if a pitch is on the bottom of your range and almost inaudible, as long as your confident you're hearing the right note.

-Sit at a piano and sing the chromatic scale through your comfortable range. If you're not trying to be an excellent singer don't bother with trying to improve your range, again this is an AURAL exercise. The goal is to be able to comfortably sing half steps and you'll more intimately hear them. Even if its only one octave. Eventually try the notes without the piano. Play a note, sing through 12 half steps and check yourself at the octave, try and keep an aural memory of the initial pitch and hear all the other tones against that.

-Do the same exercise with the diminished and whole tone symmetrical scales.

A final note: You have to train your ear in 2 ways (though they are both very interconnected). Vertically and horizontally (another way to put that is harmonically and melodically). The vertical part is much more mechanical in a certain sense. Hear a pitch, and hear the different tones that harmonize it. be able to sing different intervals against a fundamental note comfortably, and distinguish chord qualities and colors from one another.

The horizontal part is more about hearing LONGER. Its like when you first learn to drive a car and your eyes are glued ten feet in front of you and you shake the steering wheel back and forth. As you become a more experienced driver, you learn to look further ahead, and take in more of the road at once. Your reactions become smoother and more deliberate, and it feels more comfortable to be a passenger in your car. This is what you're training your lines to do, see further ahead at once and have a destination in mind. Go from hearing a few notes at a time, to a measure at a time, to a four bar phrase at a time and so on. Transcription of the language is the best way to develop this process. Not only will it make your note choices sound better but you will play them with more confidence and better articulation because you'll hear them as part of a complete idea.

 

[Tom Lane]

Wow! Harry's post just told my last two years of musical life! What a great, concise summary! The only thing I can add is that I found picking up moveable solfege helpful for nailing the pitches. I'm not sure, but I think that's because it makes the series of tones into a *song* that I can internalize as one thing. So, now when I think of Dorian Minor, I hear the solfege song in my mind's ear. I do the same thing for arpeggios. Worked for me, YMMV.

 

[Harry D'Agostino]

Wow! Harry's post just told my last two years of musical life! What a great, concise summary! The only thing I can add is that I found picking up moveable solfege helpful for nailing the pitches. I'm not sure, but I think that's because it makes the series of tones into a *song* that I can internalize as one thing. So, now when I think of Dorian Minor, I hear the solfege song in my mind's ear. I do the same thing for arpeggios. Worked for me, YMMV.

That's been my experience these past couple years as well Tom! Glad to see it's not unique to me. Movable solfege was very helpful for me as well, but I've faded on using it as much as I used to. I do a lot of arranging and part writing for 3 female singers and that's been a big help for training my ear too.

 

[Tom Lane]

I can imagine that writing out 3 or 4 part harmony would help. But that's related to singing the melody while playing a bassline and then singing the bassline while playing the melody because it develops the ability to hear the harmony as a whole move through time, isn't it? I think pianists learn that very early on but when you primarily play one pitch at a time it takes more effort. Singing while playing really keeps me honest. Recording it is even more cruel... and informative. Glad to hear that eventually I'll be able give up hearing the solfege in my mind when I play because sometimes I find it distracting.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

To echo Michael Case consider a few lessons with a technical vocal coach for the basic mechanics of the voice as an instrument and pursuing that with some passion. Ear training is important. Assuming you want to sing the parts with the same facility that you can play them on the bass so is pure physical technique. Think about what you'd be telling an accomplished singer who wanted to play on the bass what he could sing......

 

[gakmen]

Sorry for the length of this post but I feel this may all be of use to the original poster:

Singing what you play is an AURAL exercise not an ORAL exercise.
[...]

Harry, thank you so much for such an explicit reply - that's exactly what I was looking for! I have some questions about "hearing longer" and transcribing, but I already have lots of things to do, so I'll start and after a while ask some more if you don't mind. Thanks again!

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Sorry for the length of this post but I feel this may all be of use to the original poster:

Singing what you play is an AURAL exercise not an ORAL exercise. If you ever hear Barry Harris or another master like that scat, it's certainly devoid of proper vocal technique and it isn't much to listen to, but the pitch only needs to be there enough to communicate the musical idea for this to be effective. Its the same working with a good producer who can't necessarily sing a tune, but they'll get a musical idea and tell you "Play this: Be de be dop be do bah"

First off this is an excellent post with a lot of insightful thoughts on hearing that I very much appreciate. However, what someone like Barry Harris has done is in spite of not having much range or good tuning not because of it. Adequate physical technique ALWAYS makes executing what you can hear less effort. Poor technique is often a distraction you have to find a workaround for or simply ignore and settle for its limitations. Unless you're so supremely gifted that great music will emerge from you no matter what you ignore fundamental technique at your peril. Just because there are any number of examples of gifted musicians who have found personal workarounds doesn't mean it's a good general approach to accept.

 

[Don Kasper]

When pianists are "out of tune", they make a phone call...
The B*****ds!

 

[Huy Nguyen]

That's been my experience these past couple years as well Tom! Glad to see it's not unique to me. Movable solfege was very helpful for me as well, but I've faded on using it as much as I used to. I do a lot of arranging and part writing for 3 female singers and that's been a big help for training my ear too.

It's the same for me too. Writing compositions also helps me solidify my ideas into a coherent statement. It's like you're engineering a solo slowly. Do it enough and I start to get the feel to be able to do it on the fly. On a couple occasions, I've been able to transcribe exactly what I sang with the harmony without needing to change a thing: the ideas were clear enough that it was easy to write it out.

One thing I've found recently that the idea of looking long also applies to time and rhythm: It's more effective to not only be able to hear the melody well ahead, but also the time and harmony. To be able to anticipate where the pulse is in the future and not just in the present moment. The analogy about driving and looking just right in front of you is spot on.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Getting back to the OP.

One quick way to do the play what you sing is very simple:
1. Sing a line (do not play it) of a 1 bar phrase
2. play the line without mistakes. If you make a mistake, then you need to shed on that line as a lick until it's smooth and easy to execute, then go back to 1.

If you cannot play the line then either there's two issues: your technique is not there or your line was too vague. I would argue against playing and singing at the same time: it's too easy to make the voice match what's coming out of the instrument. This should be a mental conception process (it's not really aural). The clearer you can conceive the idea, the easier it is to play.

I've done the above for a while and the more I do it, the amount of accuracy goes up. I play what I hear more. I think doing the "anticipative" hearing for phrases ahead of the moment makes it far easier when you've done the above for a while.