Pre-amp and power vs a head

[eeyorebass]

Is a neutral(ish) sounding bass head the best solution ...?

For your use case, I think this is the best approach. The built in preamp provides your room eq and handles the level matching between your pedals and the integrated power amp. Plus, current amp heads are smaller and lighter than any rack set up you'd find. Something like a Quilter, GR Bass, or Genzler should do the trick.

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

I do this currently and it works pretty well for me.
pedalboard has DI to FOH, and then my preamp is SWR Grand Prix, which has HPF, 2 bands semi parametric EQ and sounds really good to me.
power amp is QSC PLX series which I have had over 10 years now and has never once let me down and never once have I been without enough power. I've run several cabinets with it, and at times used one side of it to power emergency guitars or keys.

It's a flexible way to do your thing. You can swap out rack preamps any time you want until you find the one for you.

 

[agedhorse]

That all makes sense. Thank you! It feels like a bit of a work around using the amps that I have.

Phrasing the question differently.

I have a sound from the BassRig that I like. I want to the send that to another EQ stage to deal with the room and then to a power amp.

Is a neutral(ish) sounding bass head the best solution or is there a “something” into a power amp combination that would work better?

It's not a workaround, the effects return is designed specifically for this application. It IS a power amp at that point, the only difference is that the Streamliner has the 3DPM dynamics management module as part of the power amp signal path, this operates like the limiter in a pro power amp, except that it's multi-band and tailored specifically to feel more musical with bass guitar (optimized). It's plenty neutral.

You can use a graphic eq between your preamp and the effects return of the Streamliner.

 

[David56]

Not all effects return bypass the amps EQ. (Markbass for example) I take a simple approach which is find an amp I like the results of plugged straight in using amps baked in tone/EQ, getting a comfortable stage volume, give post DI to FOH and letting them do their job. There are so many good choices for bass amps these days....

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Heads are power amps if you use the Effects Loop or Aux In with a free eq built in if you use the Front of the amp. They also have a free built in DI Box most of the times.

I have ran full band through the mixer into the Aux In of a Mesa Subway D-800 and a Genzler Magellan 800 "Head" running the pa speakers. Not used every gig though.

Also public movie night with the projector into small Mixer into Aux In of said amps.

Even one night the main board died so had to use a smaller backup board to get through the gig, it did not have enough inputs for the guitar and my bass also to send to the PA.
"My cab can handle this" with a smile. I pull out my small Mixer, plugged in the Guitar's DI then from the Mixer to the Genzler's Aux In and ran the guitar through my cab, the bass was plugged into the front of said Head as usual.

Both instruments went through loud and clear. Was not hard to find the balance.

To me a "head" with built in eq saves a lot of situations, because I am not running PA all the time.

 

[MarkA]

You can use a graphic eq between your preamp and the effects return of the Streamliner.

@Nickthebass, if you're looking for a pedal-format EQ, you might look at an Empress ParaEQ (discontinued, but there are several on Reverb -- might be one in the classifieds here, too) or ParaEQII (current production). Depending on how hot the signal is from your preamp, you might want to check that the pedal will handle it -- here's some documentation on the (old) pedal or you could write to Empress Effects -- I suspect that you'd be okay, but it doesn't hurt to check.

FWIW, I've played a few different pre+power rigs and also experimented with running into the effects returns (or sometimes the dedicated power-amp-inputs) on a few different bass heads (as well as just using those heads like bass heads). Effects returns are sometimes configured differently as to where, exactly, they come in the signal chain and what might come after, but @agedhorse would know better than anyone re. the Streamliner.

A setup in a shallow rack doesn't bug me in itself -- and there are some lovely rackmount preamps available -- but it is sometimes less than convenient with my smaller cabs... but I digress. I happen to think that every poweramp/power section imparts something to the feel and the quality of sound in a rig, but I also think that running into the effects return of your Streamliner is an excellent (and compact and simple) place to start, particularly if you don't have any other rack gear. Try your preamp into it as-is (I think you'll notice a definite difference, running into the return vs. the front end), then, if you desire more EQ control for the stage rig (and since you already have a pedal board), look into something like the Empress.


Good luck!

 

[DJ Bebop]

Yup - but if I send the BassRig’s out to the amp’s the loop then I bypass the amp’s EQ.

I’m aiming to come out of the BassRig and into a “room tuning” back line EQ before the power amp. I can (and do) this by running into the front of my current amp(s) but I’m looking to see if there is a better solution.

bass -> compressor -> BassRig -> “room eq unit”-> power amp

bass -> compressor -> BassRig -> HPF for "room tuning".-> your exsiting amp's power amp

 

[MarkA]

bass -> compressor -> BassRig -> HPF -> your exciting amp's power amp

Did you mean "existing" or "exciting"? Both? : - )

The Genz amps all have a pretty good, if not continuously adjustable, HPF built-in, but I don't know if it'd still be in the circuit between the effects return and the power amp.

 

[agedhorse]

Not all effects return bypass the amps EQ. (Markbass for example) I take a simple approach which is find an amp I like the results of plugged straight in using amps baked in tone/EQ, getting a comfortable stage volume, give post DI to FOH and letting them do their job. There are so many good choices for bass amps these days....

Most amp’s effect returns bypass the eq and voicing. MarkBass is one of the few that don’t (on some models and some configurations).

 

[DJ Bebop]

That all makes sense. Thank you! It feels like a bit of a work around using the amps that I have.

Phrasing the question differently.

I have a sound from the BassRig that I like. I want to the send that to another EQ stage to deal with the room and then to a power amp.

Is a neutral(ish) sounding bass head the best solution or is there a “something” into a power amp combination that would work better?

What is it in the room you are trying to compensate for?

Can you hear it from you location on stage vs out in front by FOH?

Would the adjustment you make from the stage translate into the room well?

Things to consider.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Did you mean "existing" or "exciting"? Both? : - )

The Genz amps all have a pretty good, if not continuously adjustable, HPF built-in, but I don't know if it'd still be in the circuit between the effects return and the power amp.

Yes

If the HPF is not in the circuit when bypassing the preamp, you would need an external one.

 

[hennessybass]

What is it in the room you are trying to compensate for?

For me, I would phrase this more like compensate for "cab / stage tone"
FOH and the XLR signal from the SV (with cab sim) should be covering the room and you might want to adjust for the cab / on stage sound.

The Origin does have some additional LF and HF eq on it that only effects the 1/4" out just for this purpose.

When not gigging my streamliner, I gig a Pre/Power amp set-up. 3U shallow rack with 1000w. Weight is not an issue cuz the power amp is Class D.

 

[bucephylus]

FWIW, the Genzler re/Q looks like a pretty great option on the board before the send to the backline power amp.

 

[J Wilson]

Aside from all the good advice in this thread, unless you're hopelessly OCD and have lots of time on your hands, I'd avoid sending a bass guitar (or any single instrument) through a 31-band graphic EQ. It quickly turns into a bottomless pit, a house of mirrors.

 

[DJ Bebop]

For me, I would phrase this more like compensate for "cab / stage tone"
FOH and the XLR signal from the SV (with cab sim) should be covering the room and you might want to adjust for the cab / on stage sound.

The Origin does have some additional LF and HF eq on it that only effects the 1/4" out just for this purpose.

When not gigging my streamliner, I gig a Pre/Power amp set-up. 3U shallow rack with 1000w. Weight is not an issue cuz the power amp is Class D.

I usually run a HPF on my stage rig, DI pre out to FOH. Then use the HPF to amp to cut as much bottom end on amp to compensate for the sub backwash.

 

[sawzalot]

I went round and round with this about a year ago. I had a great pedalboard setup I liked but sometimes needed a backline amp. I wound up with a Quilter BB800, which lets me run a balanced line in to drive the amplifier, bypassing the amp's preamp. Sometimes I actually want the amp's eq, so I also have that option by running the output of my pedalboard into the main input of the amp. So my advice would be to get a clean bass head with an effects loop--you can use the preamp when needed and the FX loop when you don't.

 

[logdrum]

Just email Saturn Works. They will give you a summer passive or active that will take care of your input and output level needs

 

[Nickthebass]

AgedHorse will definitely have superior advice to mine, but to throw in my 2-cents...you could achieve the same thing with a decent graphic EQ pedal IME. An MXR M108s, Boss GEB-7, or Whirlwind Bass 10 could probably fit the bill. You'd be able to make adjustments by your other pedals too, so if you want to make changes to room correction and your tone you wouldn't need to go back and forth between the board and your rack.

A couple hundred bucks (or less if you buy used) would be all you're out to possibly solve the problem for good. You could spring for a bigger unit (like a 31-band) if you feel it's necessary, but if I found myself in your shoes I'd just grab a solid EQ pedal and see how that rolls at your next gig.

If you always have FOH support, why not get a powered PA speaker? You would get the same sound that your are sending to FOH. That's what I do: no power amp nor graphic eq needed.

I won’t always have FOH support.

 

[Nickthebass]

I do this currently and it works pretty well for me.
pedalboard has DI to FOH, and then my preamp is SWR Grand Prix, which has HPF, 2 bands semi parametric EQ and sounds really good to me.
power amp is QSC PLX series which I have had over 10 years now and has never once let me down and never once have I been without enough power. I've run several cabinets with it, and at times used one side of it to power emergency guitars or keys.

It's a flexible way to do your thing. You can swap out rack preamps any time you want until you find the one for you.

How much does that weigh? Have you looked at a new class D or similar power amp?

 

[Nickthebass]

What is it in the room you are trying to compensate for?

Can you hear it from you location on stage vs out in front by FOH?

Would the adjustment you make from the stage translate into the room well?

Things to consider.

It’s exactly that separation (stage sound vs FOH) that I’m trying to get.

I’m using “the room” as a short hand I guess. An example could be - we have FOH but the keyboard player is blasting and there’s loads of organ making things muddy. I want to be able to drop some low mids (or whatever) to balance better on stage.

I can do this by cutting the 220 on the BassRig but that adjustment will hit the FOH signal and potentially complicating issues out front that I’m not aware of.