Pre-amps with Bergantino IP's

[GreyBeard]

Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but how do we know it's not just a compensating eq/Linkwitz filter? If we haven't seen any frequency charts, how do we know it's flat at all?

There's a ton of speculation on the operations of the DSP in the IPs, but I dunno, I'm suspecting that it's not nearly as crazy as all that.

Not that I know...

Edit: Ok, apparently it is an eq/compressor/limit combo. Straight from the website Custom factory EQ curve with compression/limiting. Ok, so now the question... is this really a DSP? The reason I ask is this, DSPs work on digital signals (thus the "D"). Does the IP use ADCs and DACs to turn the input digital for the DSP, and then convert it back for the amp section? Are we now taking our oh so precious analog tone and reducing it to binary? I mean, that's kind of a no-no, isn't it?

P.

From my experience with digital processors, the lower the frequencies, the better they work, and I'm talking 16 bit 44mhz sampling (CD quality) Newer processors use a much wider bit word 32-64 bit and bigger. And, they sample at 96mhz and higher. A bass guitar signal is a walk in the park for these processors.

 

[Pneuma]

Maybe, but it happens every time one records digitally.

Sure, it was mostly just a comment to snare people with. A lot of folks are technophobes.

Still, it makes me curious as to what DACs they are using. I know that a lot of recordings and so forth are now done at 96khz with quite expensive DACs to perserve the analog "quality" that's coming into the jack.

P.

 

[Pako]

Sure, it was mostly just a comment to snare people with.
*snip*

P.

Friggin' troll.

 

[Pneuma]

Friggin' troll.

hey, some people might not know...

Heh, I'm about to be using a POD xt Live (we've already got a Variax bass, which I don't really care a lot for). I definately have nothing against a good DSP (CD player in the car has Burr-Browns). I just hate to miss an opportunity to get a rise out of someone.



P.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Pako]

An honest question for you though Pneuma. Does the process of how the sound is produced in the IP series cabs really matter or is it the end result of the sound itself that matters to you? Or are you looking at how you can get that IP series sound with your gear by using the correct EQ, Compression, Limiting without having to actually get an IP series rig?

I tied to get "that" sound with my SWR rig. I had onboard, outboard, multi-band compressors, limiters, yaddy, yaddy, yaddah and wasn't able to come close to what I experience now with the IP rig. It just works.

 

[Pneuma]

An honest question for you though Pneuma. Does the process of how the sound is produced in the IP series cabs really matter or is it the end result of the sound itself that matters to you? Or are you looking at how you can get that IP series sound with your gear by using the correct EQ, Compression, Limiting without having to actually get an IP series rig?

I tied to get "that" sound with my SWR rig. I had onboard, outboard, multi-band compressors, limiters, yaddy, yaddy, yaddah and wasn't able to come close to what I experience now with the IP rig. It just works.

I've never even heard an IP-rig, and probably won't get to. Bergs don't exactly grow on trees down here. Mosquitos the size of ivory billed woodpeckers... that's what we grow.

I'll admit, I'm skeptical of the IP series based on the fact that it just looks like a souped up studio monitor to me. I already play through monitors on stage, I don't really need another one.

My interest in the IP is mostly on the technological side. I want to know how they are going about acheiving their goal. People have been putting electronics into cabs to get them flat for decades now. I'm just interested in how they are going about it.

As for my personal sound, right now I'm running the Cirrus into a DI into the board, and just hearing the mix. I need to get a compressor, but that's just because I need better finger control. The POD will have that (compressor) anyway. Granted, I'd like a better monitor, maybe with some more bottom end, but I don't think I'm going to drop $1500 to get that. That's just the situation I deal with. They want me to use the POD, so I'm going to. Keeps me from paying out for a good preamp/compressor at any rate.

If I had it my way, no, I wouldn't have DSPs in the chain. I probably also wouldn't be stressing a lot about having ultra flat cabs. Heck, I'd probably just build a T24/DR280 stack, run Di into a nice pre through a Crest or something and call it a day.

P.

 

[Pako]

Pneuma,

Your lucky to have a FOH that will support your bass. Sounds like a fixed install as well? In any case, I'm not as fortunate as that. I have to pack my gear when I play, I also have to fully support my bass without good FOH support most of the time. Our band used to have a killer FOH rig but it got to be too much for setup/teardown. Sucks when you're the bass player, sound guy, and roady all in one job description. So yeah, definitely....it's all about getting the right tool for the right job.

 

[Pneuma]

Pneuma,

Your lucky to have a FOH that will support your bass. Sounds like a fixed install as well? In any case, I'm not as fortunate as that. I have to pack my gear when I play, I also have to fully support my bass without good FOH support most of the time. Our band used to have a killer FOH rig but it got to be too much for setup/teardown. Sucks when you're the bass player, sound guy, and roady all in one job description. So yeah, definitely....it's all about getting the right tool for the right job.

Yup, I play on a praise and worship team. I think the sanc. sits a max of ~700. Hanging mains that can make your ears hurt way to easily. Rack of power amps in the back. I think this is the mixer we've got, running it all. It's a nice setup. I used to have a BAM 210 on stage, but it was just overkill in there. I had it down so low, just using it as a monitor basically. I don't even own a head or cab anymore. Now we've got the drums plexi'd in, and it's quite quiet on stage. We've started to have to turn up a bit more lately though... the crowd started to drown out the monitors during services.

P.

 

[Pako]

Ahhh...I see. Yeah, it would be my guess that a IP rig would be over-kill for that application. I also play on a worship group besides that 3-piece band I play with. In that situation I only need my 100w Crate which does surprisingly well in that situation. It actually has a great round tone for the music that we play and is a lot better than the donated Peavey Mark VI+4x10 setup. I run a output to the FOH just for a little added umph and away we go. I could probably enjoy the single IP112 without the extension cab and be good to go as well, but like I said, the Crate does a great for that venue and I really don't need anything else. I only have $100 invested in it so I just leave it there. I know the teens bash away on it when I'm not there, but like I said...I don't have much invested and it saves me having to pack it back and fourth. Out gigging, it's a totally difference scene for us. Different music, different drummers, different decibles....every is different.

 

[Bassflute]

No one else?

Thanks,
C.

 

[Pako]

Just got a Aguilar DB659 hooked up today. Haven't had a real chance to try it out yet, but from what I can tell...the IP rig is a LOT louder that I thought it was and has the opportunity to give me a lot more. I was amazed at what the DB659 did for my tone. One thing I noticed between the Aguilar and Sansamp or the Boss GT-6B is that the detail I heard going directly into the IP without a preamp was still there with the Aguilar. The other devices seem to loose some detail along the way to the IP112. Also, with the DB659, I was able to shape the tone of the single IP112, to sound more like the IP112+EX112. Tomorrow I have a blues festival to go to so it will be my first gig with the Aguilar. I'll give you my real impression when I get back.

 

[Bassflute]

Just got a Aguilar DB659 hooked up today. Haven't had a real chance to try it out yet, but from what I can tell...the IP rig is a LOT louder that I thought it was and has the opportunity to give me a lot more. I was amazed at what the DB659 did for my tone. One thing I noticed between the Aguilar and Sansamp or the Boss GT-6B is that the detail I heard going directly into the IP without a preamp was still there with the Aguilar. The other devices seem to loose some detail along the way to the IP112. Also, with the DB659, I was able to shape the tone of the single IP112, to sound more like the IP112+EX112. Tomorrow I have a blues festival to go to so it will be my first gig with the Aguilar. I'll give you my real impression when I get back.

Great, man, and thanks.

C.

 

[Pako]

Great, man, and thanks.

C.

Well got back from the gig. I had a chance to play through Dave's Presonus Eureka pre to 2-SWR workingman 4x10's from a band called Laughing Bones, just super great guys and super players but passed it up to check out how my IP112/EX112 rig sounded with the Aguilar pre.

So far so good but I need more time to really check it out. The bottom end was real throaty and large. Not muddy, to too round and thick for my taste. Had to back off the Bass freq. about 10%, left the bass boost off, toggled the treble boost button, but backed off of the treble nob about 10% and adjusted the mid-range to suit the song. Once I got it figured out, it was great. One thing that I was able to do is adjust the setting for the room, and I was able to get the tone I was looking without a bunch of parametrics or a 31-band eq.

Like I said, I need to get a few more gigs under my belt, but so far so good! I feel like I need a Viking Hat so I can scream, "AGUILAARRRR" while I wave my bass in the air.... LOL

I seem to be able to get a very aggressive, growly tone to a very smooth round tone with all of my basses. One thing I really noticed was that the definition was awesome. Part IP compression, part Aguilar pre for sure. The High C string on my 6-string sound a lot more even with the rest of the bass and didn't have that "Tele" tone. I found myself using it more than I have in the past because it seemed to fit better in the mix and was more consistent with the rest of the tone of my bass. This is the first time I heard that consistency. I was able to get real gritty with my low-B. Very solid.

It was a fun gig and look forward to trying out the rig again.

 

[Bassflute]

Well got back from the gig. I had a chance to play through Dave's Presonus Eureka pre to 2-SWR workingman 4x10's from a band called Laughing Bones, just super great guys and super players but passed it up to check out how my IP112/EX112 rig sounded with the Aguilar pre.

So far so good but I need more time to really check it out. The bottom end was real throaty and large. Not muddy, to too round and thick for my taste. Had to back off the Bass freq. about 10%, left the bass boost off, toggled the treble boost button, but backed off of the treble nob about 10% and adjusted the mid-range to suit the song. Once I got it figured out, it was great. One thing that I was able to do is adjust the setting for the room, and I was able to get the tone I was looking without a bunch of parametrics or a 31-band eq.

Like I said, I need to get a few more gigs under my belt, but so far so good! I feel like I need a Viking Hat so I can scream, "AGUILAARRRR" while I wave my bass in the air.... LOL

I seem to be able to get a very aggressive, growly tone to a very smooth round tone with all of my basses. One thing I really noticed was that the definition was awesome. Part IP compression, part Aguilar pre for sure. The High C string on my 6-string sound a lot more even with the rest of the bass and didn't have that "Tele" tone. I found myself using it more than I have in the past because it seemed to fit better in the mix and was more consistent with the rest of the tone of my bass. This is the first time I heard that consistency. I was able to get real gritty with my low-B. Very solid.

It was a fun gig and look forward to trying out the rig again.

I'd forgotten about this thread...

Any new comments?

Thanks,
C.

 

[emjazz]

I brought my Markbass LittlemarkII head down to Rockcity Guitars to try it next to the IP's. We ended up using the Markbass' preamp into the IP112 and it was a great match (...although the power section of the IP blew away the power section of Markbass....no contest). I also plugged into a Sadowsky outboard preamp and used that for some bass and slight treble boost as well as for gain. I can see where it wouldn't be enough for taming a boomy room but it certainly sounded great as it was. It made the IP112 with the EX112 sound much, much bigger than it already did. A slight boost at 40hz made it sound huge. I'm sure that could get you into trouble live though in a smaller room.

With all that said, the Berg line driver should be out very, very soon. I'm looking forward to that addition the most.

.........I still can't get over how those IP's sound.....

 

[curt basner]

Hey all,

I know this thread's a bit old, but found it through the questions about the IP112 from Jazzdog in the "Bergantino IP112 - Holy @*#&!" thread.

Anyway, since the Kern preamp was mentioned early on in this thread, I wanted to say that I learned, through Kern Engineering, that that preamp may be being manufactured once again, soon. In fact, it was supposed to be available again sometime this summer. I've not heard one myself, but so many folks who have, just think they are the sh*t!! So I thought I'd let folks know about its potential availability here.

Kind of interesting, the way this thread went. Getting into the technical details of digital sound. I'm a traditionalist myself (prefer tubes if possible for my guitars) but there are some amazing digital technologies (Tech 21, for example) in the guitar world that sound amazing.

I'm a bass newbie, and can't really compare my Berg IP310 to anything else out there, but I know it sounds GOOD to me. Digital or not. The tech stuff presented here is pretty interesting, though. Just wish I understood it!

 

[BartmanPDX]

WE WANT THE BERGANTINO LINE DRIVER!
WE WANT THE BERGANTINO LINE DRIVER!
WE WANT THE BERGANTINO LINE DRIVER!
WE WANT THE BERGANTINO LINE DRIVER!
WE WANT THE BERGANTINO LINE DRIVER!
WE WANT THE BERGANTINO LINE DRIVER!



Seriously, I'm EAGERLY awaiting its release. My Sansamp just ain't cutting it, and I don't want to get a pre that will change up the sound too much.

 

[Pako]

I'd forgotten about this thread...

Any new comments?

Thanks,
C.

Sorry about the delayed response. I will say that after I changed out the stock Sovtek's with some used Telefunken 12AX7's, the preamp is much more usable with the IP112/EX112. I don't have problems with that heavy bottom. It's consistent all the way through and can boost/cut to taste on the bass' pre. Basically just using the Aguilar for the Gain/Volume now. It's a very nice combination but like BartmanPDX is stammering about, I too am waiting for Jim to release his Line Driver as I feel this will be the cats meow as I have stated in other threads, but time will tell.

 

[dunamis]

I've been using a PJB Bass Buddy lately-- haven't tried it in front of an IP112, but I bet it would be killer.

 

[SCT1422]

If I ever pickup a IP series cab, I'm definitely going to get another Kern preamp...