Pre flight check. Configuration correct?

[Big Hoss]

Doesn't your mixer have a monitor out (MON)? Each channel should have a knob that determines the volume of that channel in the monitor out (but not FOH). That way you can have as much or as little of the guitars/laptop that you want in the monitors only.

My mixer has an output labelled CTRL ROOM / PHONES that is used for monitoring applications. It has a control knob of its own. It is post-mix output I believe, but could be very, very wrong...

...or address the mismatched mics, or add an EQ (Which will help tremendously in eliminating feedback) or any of that?

Just trying to be helpful, and maybe save you some steps, which I wish I had done, when I went through (And still do btw) several incarnations of PA.

Curious about your statement about mismatched mics. What sort of impact could that have? I haven't heard anything odd, am I supposed to?

As far as feedback goes, careful mic placement, volume control etc... have made feedback a non issue at this point, but we haven't used any sort of monitor yet...

 

[Frankjohnson]

Different mics have a different EQ or voicing to them. It may not be a problem - or they could be drastically different, and cause issues. it could be that you lucked out.

Keep in mind, as you add things - it gets more complicated. You said you haven't used monitors yet. Before you spend money on EQs and the like, it may be better to grit your teeth and do what you can with what you have and plan for a legitimate upgrade. I can tell you - I had to re-tool the system several times trying to make stuff work that was not intended to work together. I was able to do it, but it was far from optimal, and I spent a LOT of extra money in the long haul. You are at an advantage at least having some powered speakers to start with - right out of the gate.

 

[Big Hoss]

Different mics have a different EQ or voicing to them. It may not be a problem - or they could be drastically different, and cause issues. it could be that you lucked out.

I know about the different voicing. Which is why the lead gets the better mic. The SM58 like I said works better with higher notes...

 

[Big Hoss]

I guess the bigger question is priority of upgrades to the system. We are pretty careful about feedback and haven't had issues. I heard back from Behringer about the speaker cable thing, they agree with you, an audio (DJ) friend of mine says they are fine as does MusiciansFriend... To be honest, I don't mind buying new cables to make this work. I am leaning somewhat hard toward the TRS to TRS cables simply because both guitar amps have TRS outs, and the mixer we have has 1/4" ins, and the mixers that are likely upgrades have XLR / TRS ins... Kind of a connectivity win / win for me, but then again I might be all wrong too! Up level mixers in the same series have feedback rejection circuitry, compressors, and better effects built in, and then there are just simply better branded mixers, but jumping from a $109.00 XENYX 1202FX, to a $399.99 XENYX QX2442USB is a sizeable enough jump, but go from that to say a Yamaha MG20XU throws another $200.00 onto the tab... Well worth the investment, but we aren't ready to drop those Benjamins yet...

 

[Frankjohnson]

 

[Andy_Madison]

The guitarist in my old punk band used a Crate 60 for years. The Crate's was a good little workhorse, though maybe a little tinny-sounding. Its volume output will get completely lost in a room, especially if the amp is placed low (like on the floor). Best to mic it and dial back the distortion a bit. I don't remember the Crate having a line out - I'll check when I get home (it's collecting dust in my basement).
Man, I love those Nady SP-5 mics! Best mic value around. I think I bought 5 of 'em for $25! I'd define their sound as bright, yet not really lacking the mids & lows. Due to their largish windscreen, I'd rather sing through an SP-5 than a teeny 57 any day of the week. The 57s require too much "precision" to find their sweet spot.

 

[SoCal80s]

I guess the bigger question is priority of upgrades to the system.

From the original post I take it your goal is to reinforce the guitars. You can certainly do that by running them through a PA. You already have the speakers that can support that (I used to run a 5 piece band through two Altos and a Sub). I think your priority for the next upgrade is to get a mixer that has at 3-way EQ for each channel, and even EQs that let you chose the frequency for the mids would be good too. Having EQ will help you control feedback, prevent things from getting "muddy" by allowing you to notch out space in the frequencies for each input, and shape the overall sound. (Of course, it would be good to get the best mixer that you can so you have room to grow.)

 

[Big Hoss]

Just to familiarize everyone, the 1202fx has a 3 way EQ.

 

[SoCal80s]

the 1202fx has a 3 way EQ.

Each channel has its own EQ? My understanding is that only the first 4 channels have EQ, the rest do not, but I could be wrong.

To take the next step, you want each channel to have its own 3-way EQ with a selectable MID frequency so you can adjust each channel for clarity. Sometimes you don't need more volume to be heard, you just need to make space for the instrument that is being covered up by another instrument that has too much bass, or too many overtones making it all muddy.

 

[Big Hoss]

Each channel has its own EQ? My understanding is that only the first 4 channels have EQ, the rest do not, but I could be wrong.

To take the next step, you want each channel to have its own 3-way EQ with a selectable MID frequency so you can adjust each channel for clarity. Sometimes you don't need more volume to be heard, you just need to make space for the instrument that is being covered up by another instrument that has too much bass, or too many overtones making it all muddy.

Sorry, each xlr channel has its own channel. Each amps DI as after the eq, so adjustments can be made at the amp.

Yes we need a better mixer I just have no clue which one best suits us. We aren't a huge band, at most may end up 5 pc if we add keys later on... want room to grow.

 

[Big Hoss]

Okay, so we tested out the Harbingers via speaker cables, and TRS cables. The environment we were in wasn't electrically noisy so no odd buzzing / or humming either way, but both Harbinger and Behringer recommend the TRS cabling, so I am going that way.

Found the Nady the lead had been using to be the only one that gets weird on him. Probably gone bad after all these years. Not worth fixing.

While the Harbingers weren't high end PA speakers by any means, they certainly will suffice for the purpose they were bought for. (Monitors) and at least in the rehearsal space, have proven they have enough in them to deal with small to medium ish gigs without breaking a sweat. Sound was clean, and much louder than any PA speaker this cheap has a right to be.

Mind you, this quite possibly could be putting lipstick on a pig, but so far, the rig seems workable. So it would seem we are pretty well set at this point. I am certain we will want to upgrade later, but unless you grow up with rich parents that give you everything, you start out with a cheap car before you work your way up to the Caddilac as it were right?

It is worth noting that while I haven't heard in person the earlier version Harbinger 12" Powered loudspeakers, I have heard online A/B demos of them and I get why people get all knee jerk about this brand. So far in the limited exposure I have had to them, the V2112s are far and away a HUGE improvement in sound and quality over the APS12. The V2112 holds its own respectably against the Alto TS115A, which in turn IMHO sounds better than the Mackie Thump 12. (Never been able to A/B a Thump 15)...

 

[Big Hoss]

Okay I figured I would update this thread with my latest. I won't have any gigs, or even rehearsals until Feb as I am booked end to end in January. But after Christmas my rig has changed, hopefully for the good.

At this point, and I am still waiting on shipping, the PA rig looks like...

#1. Behringer XENYX X2442USB. This was a Christmas Gift to me.
#2. 50' XLR cables for speaker connectivity.
#3. 20' XLR cables for mics.
#4. Alto Professional TS115A (x2) mains on speaker stands.
#5. Harbinger v2112 (x2) for monitors.
#6. TRS cable to connect Behringer GTX60 guitar amp.
#7. 15' XLR cable to connect Rumble XLR output to mixer XLR input.
#8. Mics.
#9. 25' TRS cables for monitors.

Since we hadn't run the lead guitarists Crate guitar combo amp into the PA previously, I had assumed wrongly that the amp has a line out, the connector I thought was a line out is actually an insert jack. To get this guitar amp out to the PA would require mic'ing the cab. Not a big deal.

I know, get some SM58s or better. In time, we will. But for now... Assuming of course that everything works as expected, I will have.

Channels 1-4 Vocal mics.
Channels 5-8 Free for future drummer to mic his kit.
Channel 9/10 Cab mic for Crate mx120r guitar amp.
Channel 11/12 Fender Rumble 500 XLR Input.
Channel 13/14 Behringer GTX60 insert.
Channel 15/16 for external audio source (Laptop) input. 1/8" TRS F to dual 1/4" TS male breakout cable.

 

[Big Hoss]

Okay, quick update, and gig report of sorts.

We played out this weekend for a birthday party gathering of about 50 people. Not huge, not nothing. The layout was pretty simple, and we actually had a drummer this weekend. (long story, not a permanent thing). The mixer / pa was only carrying vocals, and "break music". For that we used...

#1. Behringer XENYX 1202FX.
#2. 3 of the Nady SP5's (The drummer contributed no vocals)), plus associated stands and cables.
#3. The Harbinger Vari V2112 were used as mains due to space, and time issues.

We played through with no issues with our sound, the crowd loved it, but we got run out due to a severe and sudden weather event. (Lost power during a much bigger than forecast rain storm). We ended up doing about 45 minutes electrically, after which the drummer switched to bongos, and the guitarists took up accoustics. I don't even own an acoustic so I was left with vocals and jiggling an egg shaker, but it was still fun...