Pre flight check. Configuration correct?

[Big Hoss]

I ask only 2 things about your responses.

#1. Unless you are willing, and capable of donating equipment you would prefer that my band use, please refrain from any comments good or bad about my / our gear choices.
#2. Please keep your comments restricted to gear on hand, and the types of venues / band I am working with. Thanks...

Okay so for the most part, my PA system is together, while not Caddilac by any means, it should work fine. I just need to know I am doing what I can to eke out the best possible from my gear...

I have a small 3 piece band, well 4 pc if you want to count the laptop / drum synth as the 4th member, doing classic rock, blues and country. Our gigs are typically BBQs, barn parties, and the like. We tend to get an older crowd of "married folks with kids" so we throw a family friendly show. Depending on the venue / locale we play a lot under an EZ Up canopy. We have lead guitar / lead vox, rhythm guitar / backing vox, and bass / backing vox. Equipment end to end is as follows.

Lead Guitarist, some sort of 1980s Crate 1x12 amp, I think it is a 60 or maybe 80 watter. No clue honestly. It does have a line out jack, we can bring it in to the mix if we need to. He also recently picked up a Shure SM-58 vocal mic.

Rythmn Guitarist. He is using my recent Behringer GTX-60 1x12 60 Behringer watt guitar amp. He is kind of the starving artist of the group, gig money he is making is going to buy his own amp. The GTX-60 can cable to the mix if need be. He is using one of my Nady SP-5 mics for vocals.

Bass (me). Fender Rumble 500 combo + 210 stack. Yes I am VERY careful with the application of power with this thing. XLR out to the board if need be. Nady SP-5 for vocals.

Mixer, Behringer XENYX 1202FX mixers. We have 2 of them. One is mine, the other is the lead guitarists.

Mains. 2 Alto Professional TS115A.
Monitors. 2 Harbinger Vari V2112.

So as of our last gig, we only ran the 3 vocal mics, and the laptop in to the mix and out the PA, the amps pretty much have to carry their own sound, I.E. not just for stage volume. And the Harbingers / Monitors are new, we had previously had the Altos just about parallel to the "stage front" so we could monitor off the sides. Not ideal, but functional... The Altos have been connected to the "Main Out" jacks using 1/4" speaker cable.

Given that we play classic rock, blues, and country, I am wondering...

#1. Should we be running amps to the board, and through the mains, or keep it separate? The guitar amps, particularly that old Crate tend to get a little lost volume wise after about 15 feet from the stage.

#2. The Harbingers will be used as monitors, I believe that is what the "CTRL ROOM OUT" jacks are for correct? If volume is controlled by the main slider, I am figuring we will need to run the volume on the speakers down a bit themselves to keep from blowing our hairlines further back...

 

[Bufalo]

If the amps are being lost in the room, then running them through the main system will help everyone hear them. You'll be able to run them more quietly on stage, as well.

Control room output would be fine for your monitors. It has its own separate volume knob on that mixer, but the actual mix will be the same as what you're sending to FOH. Headphone jack shares the same volume knob as the CTRL Room output.

 

[Big Hoss]

If the amps are being lost in the room, then running them through the main system will help everyone hear them. You'll be able to run them more quietly on stage, as well.

Control room output would be fine for your monitors. It has its own separate volume knob on that mixer, but the actual mix will be the same as what you're sending to FOH. Headphone jack shares the same volume knob as the CTRL Room output.

Uh, yeah, okay facepalm... I should have noticed that about the CTRL / Phones control... RTFM I guess...

 

[modulusman]

The guitar amps will probably sound better using a mic instead of the line out. Since your mixer only has 4 mic inputs you would be at least one input short. Try using the line outs at rehearsal and if one amp sounds worse than the other use a mic on it.

 

[Frankjohnson]

Just a thought - and I could be wrong - so overlook me if I am.....

If you use the control room as your monitor, AND you want the vocals, BUT not guitar........
Could you pan instruments to one side, vocals to the other and THEN have your cable to the monitors come out of the side vocals are panned to?


Oh - and probably better to use TRS or XLR to speakers from mixer - speaker cable is the wrong guy for this........

just a thought -

 

[modulusman]

Just a thought - and I could be wrong - so overlook me if I am.....

If you use the control room as your monitor, AND you want the vocals, BUT not guitar........
Could you pan instruments to one side, vocals to the other and THEN have your cable to the monitors come out of the side vocals are panned to?


Oh - and probably better to use TRS or XLR to speakers from mixer - speaker cable is the wrong guy for this........

just a thought -

Wow I missed that in the OP. Yeah do not use speaker cable.

 

[Big Hoss]

Just a thought - and I could be wrong - so overlook me if I am.....

If you use the control room as your monitor, AND you want the vocals, BUT not guitar........
Could you pan instruments to one side, vocals to the other and THEN have your cable to the monitors come out of the side vocals are panned to?


Oh - and probably better to use TRS or XLR to speakers from mixer - speaker cable is the wrong guy for this........

just a thought -

This mixture does not have XLR output for the speakers only one quarter inch. The TRS cables are certainly worth considering.

 

[modulusman]

This mixture does not have XLR output for the speakers only one quarter inch. The TRS cables are certainly worth considering.

Well don't use speaker cable. At least use guitar cable since it is shielded.

 

[Frankjohnson]

Its the wrong cable. Its not my opinion. This would help to connect your gear in hand -
Hosa Balanced 1/4-inch TRS Male to 3-Pin XLR Male Cable
Then you can XLR the remainder - which would be better, cleaner, and can be used later when you upgrade equipment at some point.

affordable too

 

[Big Hoss]

For what it's worth, I have been using the 50' speaker cables with the Altos with no issues, but I can see in an electrically noisy environment (I.E. badly grounded HVAC blower close by, TVs too close etc...) where this could be problematic. I had been considering a set of TRS male to XLR Male adapters to adapt XLR cables to the mixer...

 

[Frankjohnson]

I have/used those adapters......
I still recommend the cables Or something else......as it moves the strain/stress point to a better location. The Cable is a more stable connector, the adapter will eventually start to come apart. I keep them on hand - just in case, but found the cable to be more durable and handy.

I am not going to argue the cables, just trying to give you the right information. I mean - since you asked.

Knowledge is gained through experience -
Experience is gained through F'in Stuff up.

I F'd some stuff up - and was sharing my knowledge. Little as it may be.

FWIW - I have a friend who "was doing just fine" running three 8 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm minimum powered mixer monitor channel. He kept telling me for a month or two - SEE???? It works great!!! I just reminded him it wasn't right - and then one night - it "just went"

Good luck with it -

 

[yodedude2]

curious about how the mains hold up with the laptop bass drum sounds.

 

[Big Hoss]

curious aobut how the mains hold up with the laptop bass drum sounds.

It hasn't been too long running this way, and we don't do anything too abusive as far as super heavy kick drums. In the mean time, we are trying to talk a drummer / guitarist friend of mine into drumming with us... So hopefully this won't be a problem for much longer, and at that point, we can just carry vocals in the PA...

 

[yodedude2]

okay, thanks. i've heard good things about those mains, glad they are working out for you.

 

[Big Hoss]

I have/used those adapters......
I still recommend the cables Or something else......as it moves the strain/stress point to a better location. The Cable is a more stable connector, the adapter will eventually start to come apart. I keep them on hand - just in case, but found the cable to be more durable and handy.

I am not going to argue the cables, just trying to give you the right information. I mean - since you asked.

Knowledge is gained through experience -
Experience is gained through F'in Stuff up.

I F'd some stuff up - and was sharing my knowledge. Little as it may be.

FWIW - I have a friend who "was doing just fine" running three 8 ohm speakers on a 4 ohm minimum powered mixer monitor channel. He kept telling me for a month or two - SEE???? It works great!!! I just reminded him it wasn't right - and then one night - it "just went"

Good luck with it -

Good info to have...

Considering the distance from floor to input on speakers, and then around stage to the mixer, I would think 50' cables should work. Or am I wrong? (Not super impressed with the wire gauge for sure, but this is line level, not an amplified signal...). Another option is a TRS to XLR cable to make the full run between mixer, and speaker...

A more ideal situation would be an XLR stage snake and a mixer that is XLR compatible on the main and monitor outputs...

 

[Frankjohnson]

The construction of a Speaker cable, vs. a instrument and TRS and/or XLR (Balanced) is different. It probably works, but isn't most optimal.....

a stage snake wasn't part of your equipment list - and with 2-5 inputs, not really anything I would consider at that point.

The trs/xlr short cable was just a less expensive way to achieve the transformation, in an effort to help keep the cost down.

I have several and they come in handy to connect things, make the transformation, etc......and are inexpensive.

You notice, that I didn't suggest that you buy any equipment (like an upgrade to the mixer), or address the mismatched mics, or add an EQ (Which will help tremendously in eliminating feedback) or any of that?

Just trying to be helpful, and maybe save you some steps, which I wish I had done, when I went through (And still do btw) several incarnations of PA.

 

[LeSonyr]

Just a thought - and I could be wrong - so overlook me if I am.....

If you use the control room as your monitor, AND you want the vocals, BUT not guitar........
Could you pan instruments to one side, vocals to the other and THEN have your cable to the monitors come out of the side vocals are panned to?


just a thought -

Doesn't your mixer have a monitor out (MON)? Each channel should have a knob that determines the volume of that channel in the monitor out (but not FOH). That way you can have as much or as little of the guitars/laptop that you want in the monitors only.

 

[Big Hoss]

The construction of a Speaker cable, vs. a instrument and TRS and/or XLR (Balanced) is different. It probably works, but isn't most optimal.....

a stage snake wasn't part of your equipment list - and with 2-5 inputs, not really anything I would consider at that point.

The trs/xlr short cable was just a less expensive way to achieve the transformation, in an effort to help keep the cost down.

I have several and they come in handy to connect things, make the transformation, etc......and are inexpensive.

You notice, that I didn't suggest that you buy any equipment (like an upgrade to the mixer), or address the mismatched mics, or add an EQ (Which will help tremendously in eliminating feedback) or any of that?

Just trying to be helpful, and maybe save you some steps, which I wish I had done, when I went through (And still do btw) several incarnations of PA.

I know a mixer upgrade is needed, just not on the books quite yet. We typically set up the mixer in the middle behind us on stage, so let me think a bit about the distances...

From speaker port to floor with speaker on stand, probably 6' off the ground, across the stage another, what 10'? Up the table and into the mixer another 3 - 4 feet. So a total of 20'.

Our present XLR cables, which we have in abundance are 15'.

If we move the mixer to front of stage, hidden maybe in a purpose built box (I have TONS of plywood, screws, and black paint to do this with...), that would mean the 15' XLR cables fitted with those XLR to TRS jumpers would a more than perfect fit, and allow us to push speakers further to the side on wider stages...

Sorry if it wasn't clear BTW, the mics will be matching hopefully in the next few months. The priority right now is...
#1. Find a workable drummer.
#2. Upgrade mics.
#3. Upgrade mixer. Higher port density, XLR output to mains and monitors.

 

[Yango]

I'd like to donate my drummer, if I may. He's a nice guy, has a small kit, plays a little too loud, and has a tendency to speed up as if he's rolling down a rather large hill. But he doesn't drive, so you'll have to come and pick him up.

 

[Big Hoss]

I'd like to donate my drummer, if I may. He's a nice guy, has a small kit, plays a little too loud, and has a tendency to speed up as if he's rolling down a rather large hill. But he doesn't drive, so you'll have to come and pick him up.

I think you just nailed why we don't have a drummer yet!