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Pre/Power-amp solution

W

Whoolie

Guest
Nov 12, 2014
37
12
41
Denmark
#1
Hi there

I've been playing through my EBS Fafner for many years, and I feel I want to try something new :) The old amp is starting to have some problems. I've been looking at Pre/Power-amp solutions (I want to keep my EBS 4x12 cab as it sounds really great) and I've read a lot of good things about the ART Pro Channel II for bass. I'm pretty sure that it'll be the preamp I'm going for, as it is within my price range ~350€ for the preamp and has all the features I'm looking for.
I want a "sub'd" sound (I always have the Low button on on the EBS Fafner, low shelf boost from 80Hz IIRC), and it looks like the 120Hz low shelf on the Pro Channel could deliver that.
But please point me in other directions if you have other ideas. I have an EBS ValveDrive pedal and a Tech21 VT Bass DI pedal. I play modern melodic metal.

What poweramps should I be looking for? I think the EBS Proline 412 is rated at 1600 watts. My price range for poweramp is around 400-600€.

Thanks in advance.
 
#3
Thank you for your (short) answer. I was hoping to see more than one option though ;) Browsing this forum, people are talking about the Crown XLS-series. Are there any noticeable differences between the Crown and the Crest amps? Call me old school, but I don't really like the digital display on the Crown amps... :)
 
#4
Whoolie said:
Thank you for your (short) answer. I was hoping to see more than one option though ;) Browsing this forum, people are talking about the Crown XLS-series. Are there any noticeable differences between the Crown and the Crest amps? Call me old school, but I don't really like the digital display on the Crown amps... :)
Click to expand...

The crown has a poor input sensitivity for most bass pre amps. The crest has a better input sensitivity.
 
#5
Ok, so now I ordered an Art Pro Channel II and I'm looking at power amps again. As I'm on a budget I'm looking for used power amps locally, and I have found a cheap LD Systems DP 2100 power amp (~200€). I know LD Systems isn't excatly a high end brand, but would there be any problems using that amp to power my EBS ProLine 412? The input sensitivity is 0.775v, thats good for the Pro Channel II right?

On another note, I have a Tech21 VT Bass DI pedal. How would you connect that to the Pro Channel II? It has an XLR out, but I'm thinking it might be better to patch it in after the compressor of the Pro Channel..? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!
 
#7
Whoolie said:
Thank you for your (short) answer. I was hoping to see more than one option though ;) Browsing this forum, people are talking about the Crown XLS-series. Are there any noticeable differences between the Crown and the Crest amps? Call me old school, but I don't really like the digital display on the Crown amps... :)
Click to expand...

The Crest Prolite with the digital display is the version with DSP, if you get the non-dsp version, there is no display (and it's cheaper).

Edit: Just realized you are in Europe. Not sure if you will have more luck, but I haven't found many places offering the 220v Prolite 2.0, and those that do are a lot more expensive.
 
#8
Yes, I'm in europe, and the Crest ProLite isn't really available here :) I'm looking to buy a used poweramp locally, but there isn't too many available in my price range.
Any advide for/against the LD Systems DP 2100 that I mentioned? It's pretty heavy compared to class D amps as it's a class H, but that not a big problem right now. We already have to tow one of the guitarists 60-70 kg amp rack and my 70 kg EBS 412 ;)
 
#9
Whoolie said:
Yes, I'm in europe, and the Crest ProLite isn't really available here :) I'm looking to buy a used poweramp locally, but there isn't too many available in my price range.
Any advide for/against the LD Systems DP 2100 that I mentioned? It's pretty heavy compared to class D amps as it's a class H, but that not a big problem right now. We already have to tow one of the guitarists 60-70 kg amp rack and my 70 kg EBS 412 ;)
Click to expand...

I am afraid I haven't had any experience with the LD system amps, although I have been interested in some of their stuff on Thomann.

If weight is not a problem, then an older Crest CA6 or CA9 would work pretty well, and shouldn't be too expensive used. I personally have a CA6 in my set up and I like it (except for the weight, which is whey I want a Prolite).

I am also a big fan of QSC amps, having used a lot of the CX series (302, 502, 902 etc.). These are a lot lighter than the Crest CA series, but are also more expensive used (and new).
 
#11
Whoolie said:
I actually found a Crest CA6 used pretty cheap (~170€) But maybe the LD Systems will be better?... Hard to know.
Do you run yours in bridge mode into 4 Ohm?
EDIT: Are the cooling fans loud?
Click to expand...

I can't say if the LD systems will be better or not, but I can say that the Crest CA series last forever! The ones that I have are from a project where we replaced them with new QSC amps, the Crests had been "on" (24/7) for over 8 years, and are still going strong.

I run mine in bridge or stereo, depending on the rig I am using. If it is my normal rig, then I run stereo, using one channel for lows and one channel for mids and highs. If I am using my "biggest" rig, then I use 2 amps, the CA6 bridged for lows, and a QSC bridged for mids and highs.

Yes, the fans on my CA6's are pretty loud, but as I said, they are close to 10 years old, so this could make them louder (I really can't remember how loud they were when new).
 
#13
If you're not afriad to ski "off-piste", have a look at Synq amps from a distributor called Begelec. I came across them via posts on the Bill Fitzmaurice forum from a South African guy (known as Pulseman) on that forum, who runs a succesful touring PA rig using them. He swears by them and they've been totally reliable for him.

He is such an evangelist for them that I bought a smaller poweramp from the Begelec stable (an Amp 200.2) based on his experience with Begelec stuff. It's been totally reliable for me for well over a year now, sitting there powering a couple of floor wedges. Based on this I'm going to follow Pulseman's lead and get a Synq amp for my next poweramp purchase.

There is this one, similar output to the Crown XLS that I have, all the way through to a 3600 watt version....and all in a 1U package! They're not expensive either.

Link Removed

BTW: I'm sure Crest Prolite amps are great amps for the money, but just so the US guys who recomend them are aware, they are not widely available in Europe (at least as far as I can see from here in the UK). The big box shifters, like Thomann, don't carry them, a Google search typically points back to US dealers and even the dealers over here who list them on their websites don't actually have any in stock.
 
#14
That actually looks pretty promising, although they're probably hard to find used, and a bit out of my price range for the moment.

But a very powerful amp in 1U will look good in a bass amp rack ;) Well, in any rack actually.
 
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#15
Whoolie said:
...What poweramps should I be looking for? I think the EBS Proline 412 is rated at 1600 watts. My price range for poweramp is around 400-600€...
Click to expand...

If you don't mind schlepping a lead sled, find a used Crest CA9. ~20 kg, but 900 watts @ 4 ohms per channel, and 1800 watts @ 4 ohms bridged mono. Should be plentiful and within your budget. Many 230VAC / 50Hz units were produced. I have a CA6. Great amp. One of the most rugged and reliable ever made.
 
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#16
Whoolie said:
Ok, so now I ordered an Art Pro Channel II and I'm looking at power amps again. As I'm on a budget I'm looking for used power amps locally, and I have found a cheap LD Systems DP 2100 power amp (~200€). I know LD Systems isn't excatly a high end brand, but would there be any problems using that amp to power my EBS ProLine 412? The input sensitivity is 0.775v, thats good for the Pro Channel II right?

On another note, I have a Tech21 VT Bass DI pedal. How would you connect that to the Pro Channel II? It has an XLR out, but I'm thinking it might be better to patch it in after the compressor of the Pro Channel..? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Run your DI in to the Mic input on the ART. It will power your pedal via phantom power.
 
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#17
Jools4001 said:
If you're not afriad to ski "off-piste", have a look at Synq amps from a distributor called Begelec. I came across them via posts on the Bill Fitzmaurice forum from a South African guy (known as Pulseman) on that forum, who runs a succesful touring PA rig using them. He swears by them and they've been totally reliable for him.

He is such an evangelist for them that I bought a smaller poweramp from the Begelec stable (an Amp 200.2) based on his experience with Begelec stuff. It's been totally reliable for me for well over a year now, sitting there powering a couple of floor wedges. Based on this I'm going to follow Pulseman's lead and get a Synq amp for my next poweramp purchase.

There is this one, similar output to the Crown XLS that I have, all the way through to a 3600 watt version....and all in a 1U package! They're not expensive either.

Link Removed

BTW: I'm sure Crest Prolite amps are great amps for the money, but just so the US guys who recomend them are aware, they are not widely available in Europe (at least as far as I can see from here in the UK). The big box shifters, like Thomann, don't carry them, a Google search typically points back to US dealers and even the dealers over here who list them on their websites don't actually have any in stock.
Click to expand...

Thanks for mentioning these, I had never heard of them.

Whoolie said:
That actually looks pretty promising, although they're probably hard to find used, and a bit out of my price range for the moment.

But a very powerful amp in 1U will look good in a bass amp rack ;) Well, in any rack actually.
Click to expand...

Where did you find them for sale? I couldn't find any pricing.
 
#18
I'll just go with the CA6 as I've found one locally pretty cheap. It's the only CA-series for sale in Denmark right now.

The Synq amps are available at Musicstore.de

Running the DI out from the VT Bass into the XLR input was also my idea, but then I got thinking that it might be an idea to have the compressor before the drive.
 
#19
JACink said:
Thanks for mentioning these, I had never heard of them.



Where did you find them for sale? I couldn't find any pricing.
Click to expand...

Terralec are the UK distributor for Synq amps, they're currently priced at £248, which is in the same ballpark as the Crown 1000 XLS...some UK dealers want another £100 on top of that price for the Crown but I don't know how many they sell when Thomann can ship you one in a few days for £249.

It's on a flip of a coin whether I get a Synq or another Crown (it'll be for the PA), but I already have a Crown and although it does the job I'm not overwhelmed by it, so trying something different has it's attractions as well as saving some rack space...having said that, it's hard to be too overwhelmed by a power amp, they just do what they do.
 
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#20
Whoolie said:
I'll just go with the CA6 as I've found one locally pretty cheap. It's the only CA-series for sale in Denmark right now.

The Synq amps are available at Musicstore.de

Running the DI out from the VT Bass into the XLR input was also my idea, but then I got thinking that it might be an idea to have the compressor before the drive.
Click to expand...

Nice!

You can run either side or both at 2 ohms, as long as you are not bridged mono. If you have two dissimilar cabinets, it works well in two channels, as you can balance the cabinets by the input attenuators on the front panel.

Some CA6 have speak-on type connectors, but most have binding posts and banana connectors. These are both a pain, but let us know what your rear panel looks like for some guidance if you need it.

BTW, I put my compressor (EBS, of course!) after my VT Bass, though I don't use either with my A R T tube channel and CA6. My tube channel is an older discontinued 1 RU version that has 2 12ax7 tubes, tube drive metering, good compressor, defeatable EQ, and dual EQ bands on treble, high mids, low mids and bass. All but the bass are also parametric. Lots of features, many are shared by the unit you have, I believe.
 
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