Premature Shootout?? Mesa D350 vs Tonehammer 350

[Al Kraft]

Any opinions on sheer clean volume and out.

I think the Mesa D-350 would edge out the TH in this area based on my experience. That said, both are great sounding heads, just differently voiced.

 

[sloppy_phil]

Haven't read this thread yet, but glad to see that we are happy to openly discuss premature shootouts in such a mature fashion. Time certainly does *not* stand still on TB, I am pleased to see!

 

[JuanB]

Haven't read this thread yet, but glad to see that we are happy to openly discuss premature shootouts in such a mature fashion. Time certainly does *not* stand still on TB, I am pleased to see!

Username checks out.

 

[MarkA]

To clarify Al's comment about how the mid frequencies were selected, we set up the D-800 with sweep frequencies and asked a bunch of the more pro players to choose their favorite low mid and high mid frequencies. It was surprising how consistently the results centered around the same range of frequencies. It turns out that the player's preferences were centered around the fundamentals and low harmonics of low midrange and the low harmonics of the high midrange. I actually expected there to be a conflict between the lower and higher harmonics guys, but the treble eq addressed that well enough.

Andy, when this testing was done, were the players playing/listening through cabs? Can you tell us which cabs, if so?

Andy, what are the tonal centers of the Low Mid and High Mid controls on the D350?
Thanks

The centers are the same as on the D-800.

Are the Treble and Bass bands voiced the same as those of the D-800, then? How about the fixed HPF? Glancing at the front ends of the D-350 and D-800, they appear to be the same except for the 350 having a Bright switch in place of the D-800's Deep switch.

There was discussion in another thread about some of the very compact amps (Trace Elf, BAM 200, and the like) rolling off higher because of the small cabs they were designed to pair with. I don't expect the D-350 to roll-off like those -- and it is a bigger amp, with close to double the power -- but wondered if there might be some difference, yet, between it and its bigger brother in that regard.

Thanks!
-Mark

 

[Basically Bob]

I have owned a TH350 for nine years, now. It is a great small to medium gig-worthy amp and has been rock solid with no issues at all.

However, if I was making a buying decision now, I would definitely choose the Mesa, primarily for its feature set. The headphone-out and aux-in are features that I wish were included with the TH350. I also prefer Mesa's intuitive tone controls.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

The Genzler MG-350 should be included...i think these three provide three different flavors of equal excellence.

There is also the pf350

 

[jnewmark]

The centers are the same as on the D-800.

So is it accurate to say that the D800 is just a louder version of the D350, or is there something else, tonally, going on in the D350 ?

 

[el murdoque]

as stated above a dozen times already, it comes down to personal taste with the voicing of the preamps.
Both are stellar quality amps.

I'd pick the Tonehammer - because IMHO and in my experience the D800 sounds boring to my ears.

 

[agedhorse]

Andy, when this testing was done, were the players playing/listening through cabs? Can you tell us which cabs, if so?

Primarily Subway cabs.

Are the Treble and Bass bands voiced the same as those of the D-800, then? How about the fixed HPF?

Same bass/treble bands, the HPF is very close, the Q might be a little different iirc.

Glancing at the front ends of the D-350 and D-800, they appear to be the same except for the 350 having a Bright switch in place of the D-800's Deep switch.

Correct, the bright switch was determined to be more important feature on a smaller amp. This was originally suggested by Chef.

There was discussion in another thread about some of the very compact amps (Trace Elf, BAM 200, and the like) rolling off higher because of the small cabs they were designed to pair with. I don't expect the D-350 to roll-off like those -- and it is a bigger amp, with close to double the power -- but wondered if there might be some difference, yet, between it and its bigger brother in that regard.

Thanks!
-Mark

Correct, the additional power really puts all of these amps (Genzler MG800, Tonehammer 350, Ampeg PF350) in a different category. They are not intentionally being paired with sub-compact, lower performing (much higher F3) cabinets.

So is it accurate to say that the D800 is just a louder version of the D350, or is there something else, tonally, going on in the D350 ?

Yes, it's really a smaller D-800 with Chef's "missing" bright switch.

 

[lermgalieu]

I've always thought of the TH as a pretty heavily natively voiced amp, but I haven't played one, just heard them played by a lot of people. To me the D350 isn't like that - it has a unique voice and punch but like its big brother it's very versatile. That said, I reiterate I am speaking out of school because I don't have hands on familiarity with the TH.

 

[Mike Marshall]

The centers are the same as on the D-800.

This is a question. I normally avoid an amp where the bass control is 40 Hz I know I'm probably in the minority but when an SVT classic is in the backline I just cant get it to sound right without a lot of knob twisting. It's too deep and muddy. I have played a new Mesa 800 at a rehearsal facility and found it as easy as an old GK 800RB to dial in. What is the bass control centered at?

 

[MarkA]

This is a question. I normally avoid an amp where the bass control is 40 Hz I know I'm probably in the minority but when an SVT classic is in the backline I just cant get it to sound right without a lot of knob twisting. It's too deep and muddy. I have played a new Mesa 800 at a rehearsal facility and found it as easy as an old GK 800RB to dial in. What is the bass control centered at?

Per the below-quoted post, looks to be 40 Hz.

There is a note: measured approximately one octave from knee. I don't know if this is how the frequencies for what I assume are shelving Treble and Bass controls are typically specified or not (interesting question, actually) or how this would compare to the bass control on the SVT Classic you played.

Bass: +14dB/-14dB @ 40Hz [note 3] Low Mid: +14dB/-14dB @ 200Hz High Mid: +14dB/-14dB @ 480Hz Treble: +11dB/-14dB @ 4kHz [note 3]

[note 3]: measured approx. 1 octave from knee

The full manual is available for free at the Mesa Website Steve....this is from the specs page in the back.

 

[agedhorse]

Per the below-quoted post, looks to be 40 Hz.

There is a note: measured approximately one octave from knee. I don't know if this is how the frequencies for what I assume are shelving Treble and Bass controls are typically specified or not (interesting question, actually) or how this would compare to the bass control on the SVT Classic you played.

Because shelving controls F3 varies with the rotation (slides), it's more consistent to specify the knee frequency 1 octave away from rated +/- full boost/cut. So at full boost, the +3dB point would be roughly 80-100Hz

Shelving eq filters are often specified differently, imo, it's best to try the amp rather than assuming it will or will not work based on the numbers.

 

[Al Kraft]

This is a question. I normally avoid an amp where the bass control is 40 Hz I know I'm probably in the minority but when an SVT classic is in the backline I just cant get it to sound right without a lot of knob twisting. It's too deep and muddy. I have played a new Mesa 800 at a rehearsal facility and found it as easy as an old GK 800RB to dial in. What is the bass control centered at?

Remember that while the bass control frequency may be the same (that 40 Hz region), both the D-800 and D-350 have an internal HPF that IMO allows the bass control to be used a bit more liberally without creating extreme speaker stress, a muddy/booming tone, or a headroom robbing problem. I know it's a probably a more complex set of design considerations that allow the SW heads to be clearer in the low end when boosted, but I suspect the HPF design and implementation being well-integrated with the bass filter (EQ) design is a big piece of it.

 

[mikeswals]

This would easily boil down to feature set. For many years I wanted to buy a TH350, but what stopped me every time was it did not have headphone or aux jacks.
Even my micro Ampeg and micro Acoustic rigs both have aux & headphone features.
Buying old Walkabouts did it for me for years as there was nothing to gain by grabbing a TH350. I'm glad the D350 came along when it did because I was shopping again.

 

[dabis]

It would be an awaited shoutout for me, because as a TH350 owner, I do also "need" the clean range that seems to define the Subway D.

There is also the pf350

The Genzler MG-350 should be included...i think these three provide three different flavors of equal excellence.

I find that the 350 amp range can cover mostly all my situations. And all these options clearly show that NOT ALL CLASS D amps sound sterile. I don't even think they share the same power module, but it only matters when really crancked up.

 

[SJan3]

Well, after "resisting", I ordered and this showed up today:

 

[joel406]

Well, after "resisting", I ordered and this showed up today:View attachment 4779909 View attachment 4779910

Ya done good.

Let us know how it does at a gig.

 

[Al Kraft]

Well, after "resisting", I ordered and this showed up today:View attachment 4779909 View attachment 4779910

Don't leave us in suspense too long relative to first impressions...inquiring minds want to know!

 

[SJan3]

Don't leave us in suspense too long relative to first impressions...inquiring minds want to know!

Lol! Working on it, Al..