As usual, a day late and a dollar short. This has already been discussed. Time to move on. 
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Price vs Quality
- Thread starter Technotitclan
- Start date
Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and win with experience - Mark Twain.As usual, a day late and a dollar short. This has already been discussed. Time to move on.
Already answered in the post you replied to -- I recommended that you look at the physics of how vibrations interact with the material through which they are passing.
Heck, there are articles on WIKI that illuminate the topic pretty well...
I'll try to pull this gutterball back towards the OP's topic; there are lots of variables that feed into how a bass sounds, and a thorough understanding of those variables can make it easier to know where to look.
Wood type aside, there seems to be a general consensus about the effect of string type and material, pickup position and type, electronics (mostly dealing with how the pickups are electrically "loaded"), etc.
So, value and price is only really relevant once you have an understanding of what you're looking for.
If you're on the Alembic website picking out cocobolo laminates and low-impedance electronics for the bass that you're going to use in a low-fi White Stripes tribute band, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Likewise, if you're playing in a Who tribute band and string a Gibson EB-O with flats, you might have trouble getting it to sound like the Ox.
Bottom line: know your goals, know your variables, and find a solution that satisfies you.
Thanks, but I didn't see the post and I really don't want to get into an argument about this. Is seems to be a religious argument more than anything.
As to knowing what I want and finding it, I did that in 1967, thanks. I have what I need. I was just hoping to improve my techhical knowledge, but it seems there is nothing more that ideological hate attached to the topic and wiki is not a good source for techincal information. So I'll just let it go.
Excuse me for asking an inappropiate question.
I agree that the dollar value is subjective. No doubt about that. My statement is people will buy cares, basses, houses, boats, whatever only to impress people with the wealth and what they perceive as "taste". My statement is that either will get the job done. I also agree that the further up the dollar scale you go the better the product gets from a quality perspective. So the question becomes at what point do you pass good quality that will perform the task well into hey, look how cool and rich I am.
Vanity is a funny thing. I certainly agree that there is a certain amount of vanity involved when I take my fancy-top boutique on stage. But there is also a certain amount of vanity when I take my unmodified, $269 import on stage in the same environment just to prove that it is every bit as usable an instrument as a more expensive instrument.
Ironically, in terms of the purchase decision, vanity was involved more in the $269 purchase than the boutique purchase. Not at all involved in the latter, actually.
So at this stage we see the $2500+ category leading substantially, followed in number of votes by the $300 category. So essentially, the high and low prices garnered the most votes, but with the majority of votes distributed among the various points in between. We might conclude that, as a number of people have said, price is not really the most important determining factor in getting a suitable bass.
I would use the shoe analogy once again - I could buy a nice pair of Italian leather shoes for big bucks, but if, say, the toes are too narrow, then the pair I get at Payless which have more toe room and are comfy will be a better "quality" shoe for me. Even though the Italian shoes are technically "better", and would be judged to be better constructed with better materials. So unless I spend the money to have shoes custom made (which could be analogous to the $2500+ category), I may very well be better off with something not very expensive. Or something moderately expensive. Or possibly a different pair of very expensive shoes. The fit is really the key factor, not the price.
Similar thing with basses. Some will suit our individual needs in sound, feel, dimensions, configuration, etc. better than others, and the price is not the largest determinant of those things. I said before the the best bass I've yet found, for me, in those aspects, is a cheapo SX 5 string (which is actually pretty well constructed). On the other hand, the best guitar I've found so far is a custom shop Robert Cray (I believe they're now made in Mexico, but this was an early MIA version) which cost $1500. I would have paid more for either, as they suit my needs ... which is kind of priceless!
I would use the shoe analogy once again - I could buy a nice pair of Italian leather shoes for big bucks, but if, say, the toes are too narrow, then the pair I get at Payless which have more toe room and are comfy will be a better "quality" shoe for me. Even though the Italian shoes are technically "better", and would be judged to be better constructed with better materials. So unless I spend the money to have shoes custom made (which could be analogous to the $2500+ category), I may very well be better off with something not very expensive. Or something moderately expensive. Or possibly a different pair of very expensive shoes. The fit is really the key factor, not the price.
Similar thing with basses. Some will suit our individual needs in sound, feel, dimensions, configuration, etc. better than others, and the price is not the largest determinant of those things. I said before the the best bass I've yet found, for me, in those aspects, is a cheapo SX 5 string (which is actually pretty well constructed). On the other hand, the best guitar I've found so far is a custom shop Robert Cray (I believe they're now made in Mexico, but this was an early MIA version) which cost $1500. I would have paid more for either, as they suit my needs ... which is kind of priceless!
So what do you call it when one plays boutique basses but will never tell anyone what how much they cost or explain what they are? If it's vanity, someone please explain why.
Most people in the crowd at my shows have no idea that my Fodera is worth a ton more than my beat up $299 Squier. They don't know a Fodera from an Alembic or a SX or Walmart Rocker. Some TBers and the odd other musician/music store employee may be impressed with high end bass ownership and recognize a specific logo on a headstock, but I can assure you that literally NOBODY ELSE gives a crap.
"Vanity" to me is a Boutique/expensive bass owner saying "I would never ever play a crappy Squier" or any boutique owner saying "Do you want to know how expensive my bass was?", or even "I only play BRAND X and they are by far the best".
Calling the mere act of owning an expensive bass, watch, car, house, etc. "vain" is ignorant IMO. YMMV.
Most people in the crowd at my shows have no idea that my Fodera is worth a ton more than my beat up $299 Squier. They don't know a Fodera from an Alembic or a SX or Walmart Rocker. Some TBers and the odd other musician/music store employee may be impressed with high end bass ownership and recognize a specific logo on a headstock, but I can assure you that literally NOBODY ELSE gives a crap.
"Vanity" to me is a Boutique/expensive bass owner saying "I would never ever play a crappy Squier" or any boutique owner saying "Do you want to know how expensive my bass was?", or even "I only play BRAND X and they are by far the best".
Calling the mere act of owning an expensive bass, watch, car, house, etc. "vain" is ignorant IMO. YMMV.
I agree. Let's face it. Owning an expensive anything doesn't make you vain. Our expensive basses just make us better musicians than those playing crappy Squiers! Nobody who plays a Squier can be considered serious about music guitarists have told me. Do you know how expensive my Alembic is? Or how about my TWO Modulus basses. The company is out of business. Does that make me cool or what? I only play Modulus because they are the best just like you only play Fodera. Well, I don't own a Fodera so I'll never play like Victor Wooten and sure, I have been known to play my Squier PJ if for some odd reason I want to have a sound like a P-bass, But I think we all know what owning expensive basses means! (wink wink, nudge, nudge!)
I'd better make something more clear than I have. I didn't say vanity is necessarily a bad thing. If you like it and can afford it, go for it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with owning a beautiful hand made instrument. All I am saying is it doesn't make you a better player. 99.44% of the people who hear you play will not know how much you spent for your gear nor will they be impressed with the fact you are playing a Alembic or amused you have a Squire Affinity. Not only will they not know anything about it, they wont notice the difference in sound.
How many times have you come off stage feeling like it was the crappiest performance your band has have done and had people come up and rave about how great your band it?
If they cant spot the wrong notes and dropped beats, they sure will not hear the difference in the tone you are getting.
For me, the most expensive bass I have ever owned is my American Standard J. I once owned a Cadallic. The most expensive watch I own is a Tissot. I once had a Mont Blanc pen.
But, I have also gigged a bass I paid less than $100 for. I once owned a Nash Rambler I paid $50 for. I have watches I got free. I steal pens from evey place that puts pens where you can take one. Both basses got me through the gig just fine. The Ramble got to and from gigs just like the Cadallic. The free watch I got at Burger King kept time but wasn't as pretty as the Tissot. When I lost an $85.00 pen I freaked. When I loose a freebee pen I get another.
So the point is you don't have to have the expensive stuff to live but it is nice to have, if you want it.
So if you feel bad because you show up at a gig with an SK instead of a Sadowsky and you feel uncomfortable, it's probably you.
And what is the point of owning a really nice instument if you wont take it out of the house to gig with? That's like sitting around the house in a suit and tie and changing into ragged jeans and an old tee shirt to go out in public. I take my best stuff to gigs and use my old crap for practice.
If you don't own a $5000 Rolex, how can you tell?
My Foderas cost approx 30-40x more than my Squires. Therefore Foderas are 30-40x more gooder.I agree. Let's face it. Owning an expensive anything doesn't make you vain. Our expensive basses just make us better musicians than those playing crappy Squiers! Nobody who plays a Squier can be considered serious about music guitarists have told me. Do you know how expensive my Alembic is? Or how about my TWO Modulus basses. The company is out of business. Does that make me cool or what? I only play Modulus because they are the best just like you only play Fodera. Well, I don't own a Fodera so I'll never play like Victor Wooten and sure, I have been known to play my Squier PJ if for some odd reason I want to have a sound like a P-bass, But I think we all know what owning expensive basses means! (wink wink, nudge, nudge!)
