Problem with small cabs on small stages

[gtirard]

I mostly play on small stages with a small cab (1x12).

(1) Very often, I'm obliged to stand at a short distance from my small cab, so if I set my volume for the audience I can't hear myself, or I set the volume for myself and I'm too loud for the audience.

(2) my guitarist uses an amp stand in order to rotate his amp, so he can hear himself well. He's using a combo amp, so it's fine, but if I did the same with my head + cab, the head would slip from the cab

(2 bis) There are solutions in order to fix the head on top of the cab, either in the Genzler way or the Quilter way, but I think there's no point using separate amp & cab if you have to attach them.

(3) I could use a stand that allows the amp to be raised without changing its orientation, but I'm afraid to loose the "coupling effect" of the floor. Is that a real thing? Or maybe I shouldn't worry about that?

(4) In another thread, @anderbass talks about the AudioKinesis Hathor cab, but I'd like to keep my Barefaced Super Compact, which I love

Thoughts?

 

[Aloe]

I had a tiltable cab and the head didn't fall off. I used a protruding corner over the top to lean my head to it, so it won't slip. to some degree it won't slip as the rat fur was pretty grippy, but with using the corner I felt more secure. another option is some kind of strong velcro, if the cab has rat fur.

you'll lose floor coupling both with stands at pic. 2 and 3, but it might be a good thing, especially on a hollow stage. some folks invest money in isolation pads (like auralex gramma), you got one for free. I'd say, not much to worry about, just add some lows if it's not boomy enough.

 

[pingvuiini]

 

[gtirard]

you'll lose floor coupling both with stands at pic. 2 and 3, but it might be a good thing, especially on a hollow stage. some folks invest money in isolation pads (like auralex gramma), you got one for free. I'd say, not much to worry about, just add some lows if it's not boomy enough.

Thanks!

I could simply use a keyboard stand for solution 3 then, it's easy to find. I just have to check stability…

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

I mostly play on small stages with a small cab (1x12).

(1) Very often, I'm obliged to stand at a short distance from my small cab, so if I set my volume for the audience I can't hear myself, or I set the volume for myself and I'm too loud for the audience.

View attachment 7039896

(2) my guitarist uses an amp stand in order to rotate his amp, so he can hear himself well. He's using a combo amp, so it's fine, but if I did the same with my head + cab, the head would slip from the cab

(2 bis) There are solutions in order to fix the head on top of the cab, either in the Genzler way or the Quilter way, but I think there's no point using separate amp & cab if you have to attach them.

(3) I could use a stand that allows the amp to be raised without changing its orientation, but I'm afraid to loose the "coupling effect" of the floor. Is that a real thing? Or maybe I shouldn't worry about that?

(4) In another thread, @anderbass talks about the AudioKinesis Hathor cab, but I'd like to keep my Barefaced Super Compact, which I love

Thoughts?

I use a Fender Rumble 100 combo and prior to that used my own designed 110/6 cabs with a lightweight separate head.

I recently just made my own cart/dolly/stand for the Rumble. It's more useful/versatile for a stand as it also carries everything I need in the lower "milk crate" storage area that I can wheel from the car to the stage. It also has a collapsible handle on the back so I can tilt it, and use it more like a dolly than cart. Rather than carrying a separate stand, the cart becomes the stand.

Oh...and the rubber feet on the bottom of the combo fit perfectly snug in each of the four corners of the lip of the milk crate storage area.

Coupling a cab to a floor for some kind of acoustic effect isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway. If you're playing on any concrete/tile, etc. floor it makes absolutely no difference. On hollow/raised stages it just makes it a noisy low end mess of things without much positive result sonically anyway.

 

[4Mal]

In one room I used to play the stage are was very shallow. I set my cab on the other side of thr drum kit angled loward me. That worked.

This is one reason I prefer 2 way cabs with a mid driver. Used to be fEarful 12/6 cabs. Now I have 2 using a 15 and a 5" mid both from Faital Pro. I get the low rumble from the cab and the 5" mid disperses widely so I get enough for not definition up close. I don't love playing up close like that but these cabs make it workable.

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

In one room I used to play thr stage are was very shallow. I set my cab on the other side of thr drum kit angled loward me. That worked.

This is one reason I prefer 2 way cabs with a mid driver. Used to be fEarful 12/6 cabs. Now I have 2 using a 15 and a 5" mid bith from Faital Pro. I get the low rumble from the cab and the 5" mid disperses widely so I get enough for not definition up close. I don't love playing up close like that but these cabs make it workable.

Ah...yes, I remember the fEARful days. back when I used to design/build my own cabs (back when my username was Sundogue). I love my Rumble 100 with the 12" driver for small gigs. Light and powerful enough for me now that I no longer need to be loud or needing to deal with the "cut through the mix" problems.

 

[Bob_Ross]

For a variety of reasons, one of which included OP's dilemma, about ~20 or so years ago I gravitated towards setting up at the side of the stage so that both I and my amp are facing across the stage (from left-to-right, or right-to-left) rather than out towards the audience.

If there is PA support for the bass then this solves all problems: My amp is simply there for me and the band to hear, it's barely audible to the audience. If there's no PA support I just rotate my amp 90° so it's facing forward, and, if necessary, tilt it back so I can better hear it. Audience gets just enough...I don't think I've ever been in a situation where my onstage bass amp was too loud for the audience but not loud enough for the musicians onstage.

...oh, wait, there was that one gig at the China Club in NYC where my amp must have been positioned in the exact Black Hole of all room nulls, and no matter how much I turned it up or rotated it no one onstage could hear a note I played!

 

[NeilJazz]

I use #2 but with a combo amp so no worries on the head falling down.

 

[KohanMike]

I really like what @M-Mittlesteadt did. I use an old lady shopping carts in a similar way with my Carvin MB15 combo, but his is more elegant. I will also use an On-Stage folding amp stand, $40 at B&H.

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[Elmstreet]

I'm in a similar situation where I play mostly small stages, and I recently got a stand to tilt my 112 combo. I can say It made a HUGE difference in how well I was able to hear myself.

I did notice a change in the low end obviously since the amp isn't on the floor, but it wasn't something EQ couldn't fix.

In the past at gig volume I would usually have my bass knob (40hz) pulled back to 11 or 10 o'clock depending on the room. With the stand I'm usually at 12 or 1 with the bass knob. I've also noticed myself adding in a bit more low mids (360hz) with the stand.

In your situation I would go for option 3. I do want to note that my tilt stand has an arm supporting the back of the amp that is extendable, and would support the back of your amp head as well. You would just need to secure it so it doesn't move side to side, if that makes sense.

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

I really like what @M-Mittlesteadt did. I use an old lady shopping carts in a similar way with my Carvin MB15 combo, but his is more elegant. I will also use an On-Stage folding amp stand, $40 at B&H.

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View attachment 7039980

My local music store had a foldable, tiltback amp/cab stand I was thinking about getting. Then I thought...hmm, one more thing to carry in and I'm trying to be as minimalistic as possible. Small, light, and portable is my approach to gigs now. No PA, no big stages, no late nights or loud music.

 

[CallMeAl]

I use combos, either with a wedge or tilt back design, so I’m inclined to explore the #2 option.

If you really want to keep your cabinet, and really don’t want to do anything to attach the head on top- maybe just put the head on the floor? For me, after sound check I don’t touch the amp (might make a tweak in the bass guitar controls if needed.)

Option 3 makes me nervous, for stability purposes, as well as tinnitus purposes

 

[agedhorse]

There’s nothing wrong with options 2 and 3 IME.

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

I use combos, either with a wedge or tilt back design, so I’m inclined to explore the #2 option.

If you really want to keep your cabinet, and really don’t want to do anything to attach the head on top- maybe just put the head on the floor? For me, after sound check I don’t touch the amp (might make a tweak in the bass guitar controls if needed.)

Option 3 makes me nervous, for stability purposes, as well as tinnitus purposes

It really depends on what is being used as a stand.

As for tinnitus, I used to play in loud bands, both onstage and out front. Being older (and hopefully) wiser, I no longer care for loud volume, but I still want that organic tone and "feel" to the bass.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

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And 1/2 way between:

 

[gtirard]

It really depends on what is being used as a stand.

As for tinnitus, I used to play in loud bands, both onstage and out front. Being older (and hopefully) wiser, I no longer care for loud volume, but I still want that organic tone and "feel" to the bass.

We're getting old too and we have also lowered our stage volume a lot thanks to my great drummer who's good enough to groove at any level. My concern is more about balance.

Thanks all, great comments as usual, lots of ideas to try.

 

[Averell]

I’d say the solution 3.

Or else you can try the PJB EarBox on a mic stand.

 

[Wasnex]

I generally prefer 3, however I often wedged a spare DI under the front of my cab to tilt it back a bit. My cabs had flight cases with castors, which I used for speaker stands during the gig. I am guessing you don't have flight cases (too heavy). If you plan to carry something, probably a tilt stand will be the lightest option.

In my experience, with my rig on the floor the bass frequently becomes to loud for the room before I can hear as well as I want. Elevating my cab made it possible for me to hear at the lowest possible volume. In my observation, some bassist love the extra clarity and some hate it.

I do think elevating the cab has some impact on the tone. Close to the cab you will perceive less lows. In the distance, I think it typically tends to clear up and focus the sound.

I think your reasons for discounting 2 should be reconsidered. I wouldn't permanently fix the amp to the cab, but surely you can imagine another fix.

Ultimately try it all three ways and judge for yourself. You may find that it's best to vary your setup depending on the room and volume requirements.

 

[Five or Six]

Back in the day I would raise amp and face it toward the wall.