Problems with the law.

[cheezewiz]

The lesson we learned today, with no comment if the officer was right or wrong, is, don't be a dumbass. If you would have just stopped playing, you would have avoided the ticket, wouldn't you? You, I, and everyone else reading this knows you WERE being a smartass with the whole "cooling down your fingers" thing.

I'm NOT saying the officer was right. I'm merely pointing out that people are OFTEN their own worst enemies. You're attitude shows through loud and clear with your "intellect" post.

 

[stingray2112]

Yeah. Don't do that. You failed. Never talk back to a cop, never try to "correct" them.

Sit down and shut up next time.

+1

 

[Pilgrim]

Hopefully the OP has noted that the common thread in the helpful responses is:

Get a copy of the noise ordinance and READ it.

Then you can decide what action to take.

 

[Fretless1!]

Y'all, I couldn't tell you how many times, in my younger days, I avoided legal troubles by being extremely polite and respectful.

Was it worth keeping my mouth shut? Even the times I thought I was right?

Damn straight, it was.

I mean, even if you win the case, it just ain't worth the hassle of having to drive down to the courthouse and back. If you lose, you're out 300 bucks. If you win, you wasted your whole day fooling with the court system.

Had practices interrupted a few times by the police. All of them were real nice and almost apologetic at having to shut you down. Sometimes they'd say, "Well, play one more and shut it down."

I'm not picking on you or preaching at you. I'm just relating my experiences. I think it might be helpful for other people that find themselves in the same kind of situation.

Word to the wise and all that.

 

[TheVoiceless]

Sunday yesterday around 6 pm our band was holding rehearsal just as any other usual weekend. However this weekend someone in the neighborhood decided to call the cops :scowl: We hear a knock on the garage door and a yell that its the cops, out of instinct we all proceed to turn off our amps, and our drummer proceeds to open the garage door. As soon as the door is open the sheriff feels free to walk inside our practice space and engage into a conversation with David our drummer. As he does he notices my fingers running over my fretboard (take in mind I was not picking, simply running my fingers over the board as in a warm up/cool down, and the amp was off) so he tells me: Will you stop playing that while I talk to him? I try explaining to him that im not playing that im simply cooling down my fingers from our current jam, and he takes that as me being a smart ass. He pulls me out of the garage and asks for my age, I reply 19, he then tells me that if im 19 I can afford to get a 300$ ticket under the charge of loud music for being a smart ass. While he is writing the ticket he places me in the back of his car, finally lets me out hands me the ticket leaves without incident. I will additionally add that he left a particularly offensive "typo" on the ticket, he put down my sex as being female, I do have long hair, but seriously to mistake me for a girl you'd have to be a 3 year old. I plan to show up in court and contest the charge. Ideas, thoughts, opinions welcomed.

To take this on face value, I would have to say if your not leaving anything out of your situation, you have a good case against the officer. Just decide how important it is too you to fight it. If you choose to fight the ticket, represent yourself in a respectful manner. Use adult language, dress respectfully and prove to the judge your a reasonable person, and had the officer acted reasonable you would never be in this situation.


Why is it acceptable that an officer can treat a kid this way? Because he was a smart ass? HUH? Could the kid been nervous about the pissed off guy with a gun that entered his home? $300 for a noise complaint? No one cares that this is robbery? Why couldn't the officer calmly enter the situation and talk with respect to the residences he protects? I'm sure they would gladly comply.

Am I missing something? Please explain. The " this is the way it is" lame explanation is just that. LAME!! The only reason it is " this way" is because we allow it to be this way. " Choose your battles"???? HUH??, the officer created the issue. Again let me explain, had the officer entered the situation in a calm and respectful manner, had at that point the kid became a " smart ass", then the officer has the right to push his weight around.

 

[Skitch it!]

Could have been worse, I remember a fellow bass player friend being busted at an after-hours fancy dress gig a good few years back, he was taken to the station dressed as a chicken.

 

[electracoyote]

Why is it acceptable that an officer can treat a kid this way? Because he was a smart ass? HUH?

Because he BROKE THE LAW (noise ordinance) AND WAS A SMARTASS? HUH?

Yeah.

I don't think seperating the incident from the attitude is fair or accurate. It's a package deal, take it as a whole, is was a dumb sandwich on stupid bread.

IMO, people who break a law and then are disrespectful to law enforcement don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. That LE had the option of a warning or a ticket. How dumb is it to tempt fate like that?

Let's hear some more defense of personal irresponsibility. It gives me so much faith in society.

 

[Ursus Tyrannus]

Contest the ticket.
In MA the law used to be the officer had to be present to represent his side. That means HIS boss has to pay him to sit in court until the case is heard instead of being on the streets and possibly have to pay another cop to cover his shift. And that pay comes out of a state/town budget and they dont like to waste that money by having a cop sitting in court for one ticket. They did change the law for the State Troopers some years ago so that a single representative could be there for all contested tickets but that means rarely is the officer who wrote the ticket actually present, thus he will not be there to explain (lie) his side so its your (hopefully polite and well reasoned) word against a piece of paper and some cop who got stuck pulling court duty and cannot comment on the incident regardless because he wasn't present. And considering time of the offense, ticket amount, and discrepancies within the ticket you may have little to no trouble overturning it.
I have contested every ticket I have ever got in my life on the principal of it and the only one I paid was the one where I went to the wrong court house. It had moved to a new building since the last time I had been there and by the time I got to the new building across town I was too late. Thats one out of four tickets.
Obviously your state law will vary but what have you got to lose? If you lose you are right back where you started and lets face it, $300 is a lot for that type of offence, how much will you lose for a days pay at work? More or less than $300? How much do your principals cost?

 

[fourstringdrums]

Just a thought:

Pissed off overbearing cop spoiling to write someone a ticket asks you to stop playing...

The only correct answer: "Okay."

/thread

+1

The cop was out of line, but in the future, the best course of action is to just do what the cop asks and not correct or argue. Chances are if they are in a mood to give you a hard time for what you're doing, they're not going to listen to whatever your answer is.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Because he BROKE THE LAW (noise ordinance) AND WAS A SMARTASS? HUH?

Yeah.

I don't think seperating the incident from the attitude is fair or accurate. It's a package deal, take it as a whole, is was a dumb sandwich on stupid bread.

IMO, people who break a law and then are disrespectful to law enforcement don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. That LE had the option of a warning or a ticket. How dumb is it to tempt fate like that?

Let's hear some more defense of personal irresponsibility. It gives me so much faith in society.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but someone needs to clear this up first. Did the OP opening the garage actually give the officer the right to enter the premises or did the officer take it upon himself to invite himself in? I think that would have some relevance in whether or not the ticket should of been given in the first place, regardless of the noise violation.

 

[Simo98]

I guess if you're that easily beaten down by a moron with a badge and an ounce of authority. How quickly you'd acquiesce... no wonder cops get away with anything.

Pick your battles, you can't win them all. Wouldn't it have been a hell of a lot easier to say "ok"?

In all honesty, it seems like the policeman was not the only one with a chip on his shoulder. If you want people to respect you, you need to take the first step.

That being said, you didn't really deserve a ticket, and the cop was a jerk, I say fight it as far as you can.

 

[nutdog]

My dad's advice 30 or so years ago was "always say yes sir and no sir to a man with a .357 on his belt". It's worked pretty well for me.

 

[The modifier]

The cop was not invited in, we opened he door and he allowed himself in, not that it matters much now anyways. And I would have stopped my playing and put down my bass had the officer been directly addressing me. However the officer was talking to our drummer as soon as he came into the garage, I was sitting on a stool off to the side and its when he caught a glance of me when he asked me to "stop playing that in his presence". And of course we were ALL breaking the law or else the officer wouldn't have shown up in the first place, however he is placing all the charge on me just because I ticked him off (the officer said so himself). Im not the owner of the property, or the band leader which imo should have been the person receiving the ticket, im just the bassist for petes sake. But all in all its not so bad, im blessed to have good band mates and we've talked it over and if it does come down to me having to pony up some cash we all plan to split the cost.

 

[ShredderMaximus]

Thats pretty cool that your bands helpin you out! Been in and seen a few who wouldn't give a rats a$$!

 

[L-A]

Well, now that the ticket is issued (wrongfully), fight it in court, as others have mentioned. No point in mouthing off an officer, but there's none more in letting one believe that his wrong use of power goes unpunished.

 

[carl h.]

Anyone else thought about mentioning that a quieter practice environment helps tighten up the band? Good for the band and it doesn't pi55 off the neighbors either - win win (plus that whole hearing loss thing...)

 

[elgecko]

Don't poke a big bear with a a short stick!

 

[Pilgrim]

...And of course we were ALL breaking the law or else the officer wouldn't have shown up in the first place...

WRONG!

WRONG!

WRONG!

Police show up all the time to check things when no law has been broken.

WHY do you insist on convicting yourself when you have not taken the advice that has been offered OVER AND OVER to get the ordinance and read it?

Pay attention, stop posting and whining about this, do your homework on the ordinance and fight this citation. This is becoming frustrating.

EDIT: Ray pointed out below that he has indeed reviewed the ordinance. It's pretty darn general - not very encouraging.

 

[Munjibunga]

Will you stop playing that while I talk to him?

Correct answer: "Yes, sir."

 

[Selta]

WHY do you insist on convicting yourself when you have not taken the advice that has been offered OVER AND OVER to get the ordinance and read it???

Calm down... he HAS done this, go back and re-read:

Our local sound ordinance states as follows:
9.22.030 Noise generally.

A. It is unlawful for any person to willfully make or continue, or allow to be made or continued, any loud, unnecessary noise which disturbs the peace or quiet of any neighborhood or which causes discomfort or annoyance to persons residing within one thousand feet of the noise source.

B. The standards which may be considered in determining whether a violation of the provisions of this section exists may include, but are not limited to the following:

1. The level of the noise;

2. The level and intensity of any background noise;

3. The proximity of the noise to residential sleeping facilities;

4. The nature and zoning of the area within which the noise occurs;

5. The density of habitation of the area within which the noise occurs;

6. The time of the day or night the noise occurs;

7. The duration of the noise;

8. Whether the noise is recurrent, intermittent or constant.

C. Refrigerator trucks shall be permitted to operate in any commercial or manufacturing zone at all hours; provided, however, that such use does not emit noise or vibration detrimentally impacting neighboring residential properties and the occupants thereof between ten p.m. and seven a.m. (Ord. 3924 § 3 (part), 1999)

If the cop can't provide evidence of my "loud music" then I should have little to worry about. (by evidence I mean the standards listed under B. such as the level of the noise and the level and intensity of any background noise)

OP sounds pretty much S.O.L. IMO, outside of getting sympathy.