Promoting "competing" bands

[electracoyote]

Our singer recently put up a FB post along the lines of “Rare night off. Went to {venue} to check out {not my band}. What a great show. Definitely check them out if you get a chance.” With a photo and link to their page.

Now our guitarist had a bit of a rant about promoting the “opposition”. This is in small-town cover-band land, where we’re all competing for a dwindling number of venues, but I’m on the side of our singer. Promoting live music on the whole is good for everyone. More people checking out bands at venues, means more venues putting on bands, means more gigs for everyone. It’s the flip side of Dad-Bands playing rubbish blues for free is dragging down the image for everyone.

Discuss……

Okay, my area is very saturated and concentrated with some really good competing bands, directly competing with mine for the same venues and talent buyers. So that kind of internet free promo for a band I am in direct competition with in my area would not go over well with me.

I would never diss on a competing band, but I have no intention of giving them a free boost up the ladder.

However, we make it a point to announce the next week's live entertainment everywhere we play. But that is mainly to promote the venue (and curry their favor), not the band.

Yeah, promoting "live music" in general is a good idea, but in specific (promoting other bands), at the possible expense of your own livelihood, is suicide. It's not necessary. Singer could have quashed that sentiment and everything would have been just fine. No one would have leveled any criticism. Let the other bands drum up their own buzz under their own volition.

 

[Korladis]

Okay, my area is very saturated and concentrated with some really good competing bands. So that kind of internet free promo for a band I am in direct competition with in my area would not go over well with me.

I would never diss on a competing band, but I have no intention of giving them a free boost up the ladder.

However, we make it a point to announce the next week's live entertainment everywhere we play. But that is mainly to promote the venue (and curry their favor), not the band.

Yeah, promoting "live music" in general is a good idea, but in specific (promoting other bands), at the possible expense of your own livelihood, is suicide. It's not necessary. Singer could have quashed that sentiment and everything would have been just fine. It's bad for business.

If this is your livelihood, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Music is a terrible way to make money.

Also, if you're that band that won't lift a finger to throw a bone to anybody else, you're probably that band that every other band hates and will go out of their way not to help.

 

[electracoyote]

If this is your livelihood, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Music is a terrible way to make money.

Also, if you're that band that won't lift a finger to throw a bone to anybody else, you're probably that band that every other band hates and will go out of their way not to help.

Fer cryin' out loud, what a pompous reply.

And I don't see any of my competitors throwing my band any freebie promotions. So it's the environment here. Save the sermon for something more appropriate.

 

[Korladis]

Fer cryin' out loud, what a pompous reply.

And I don't see any of my competitors throwing my band any freebie promotions. So it's the environment here. Save the sermon for something more appropriate.

If you're getting pomposity from me, it's reciprocation of how I read your post.

 

[electracoyote]

If this is your livelihood, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

lmao

Is this from the first chapter of your book How To Live and Think Like Me and Be Happy?

Just, wow. Save it for someone else.

 

[40Hz]

Yep. People remember that sort of thing. For a long time.

Yeah. I'm kinda like that. I seldom get angry and I never try to get back at anybody for anything after the fact. If I don't respond immediately to something somebody does to me then they're off the hook. It's over and done with as far as I'm concerned. But we're also over and done with each other if it was major enough.

A friend of mine summed it up best. Her motto was: "Time wounds all heels." You don't need to do anything to get back at people. You just have to wait and not do anything to bail them out when "what comes around goes around" as the saying goes.

I've found there's a lot of truth to the notion of karma. Life has a way of balancing the books.

 

[Korladis]

lmao

Is this from the first chapter of your book How To Live and Think Like Me and Be Happy?

Just, wow. Save it for someone else.

Don't want responses, don't post.

Music is known for not being financially lucrative. This isn't exactly some radical opinion of mine.

 

[electracoyote]

Don't want responses, don't post.

Music is known for not being financially lucrative. This isn't exactly some radical opinion of mine.

More diluted and lamer each time. Come back at me once more, let's see if you evaporate into thin air.

 

[ScrewDevil]

Music is a terrible way to make money. Just ask these guys...

 

[JimmyM]

Music is a terrible way to make money. Just ask these guys...View attachment 2986790

And for each of them, there are 1000 musicians like me who make a decent middle class living and won't ever rise past it. And for every one of me, there are 1000 musicians who only do weekend stuff at bars. And for every one of them, there are 1000 musicians who will spend way more on music than they make.

Your chances of making Ozzy money with music are less than winning Lotto and getting hit by lightning on the same day.

 

[ScrewDevil]

And for each of them, there are 1000 musicians like me who make a decent middle class living and won't ever rise past it. And for every one of me, there are 1000 musicians who only do weekend stuff at bars. And for every one of them, there are 1000 musicians who will spend way more on music than they make.

Your chances of making Ozzy money with music are less than winning Lotto and getting hit by lightning on the same day.

That actually happened to me once.

 

[ScrewDevil]

And no one will ever be successful at it if they accept that as an absolute. "Can't win, why bother?" is a terrible attitude to have.
Having said that, the odds aren't in your favor for the most part. That just requires more determination and effort on your part if, in fact, you do believe in yourself as a musician.
The safe road is not always the most fulfilling.

 

[JimmyM]

And no one will ever be successful at it if they accept that as an absolute. "Can't win, why bother?" is a terrible attitude to have.
Having said that, the odds aren't in your favor for the most part. That just requires more determination and effort on your part if, in fact, you do believe in yourself as a musician.
The safe road is not always the most fulfilling.

Hey, I'm not in the business of crushing anyone's dreams. If you believe in yourself, you should go for it and don't let anyone discourage you. But if there's one person out of everyone on Talkbass who isn't already a rich and popular musician who gets rich and popular with music, it'll be a miracle. That's just how it is in a business that's only slightly less random than professional wrestling.

 

[ScrewDevil]

Hey, I'm not in the business of crushing anyone's dreams. If you believe in yourself, you should go for it and don't let anyone discourage you. But if there's one person out of everyone on Talkbass who isn't already a rich and popular musician who gets rich and popular with music, it'll be a miracle. That's just how it is in a business that's only slightly less random than professional wrestling.

Well said.

 

[Korladis]

And for each of them, there are 1000 musicians like me who make a decent middle class living and won't ever rise past it. And for every one of me, there are 1000 musicians who only do weekend stuff at bars. And for every one of them, there are 1000 musicians who will spend way more on music than they make.

Your chances of making Ozzy money with music are less than winning Lotto and getting hit by lightning on the same day.

Exactly.

If the main reason you do this isn't because it's personally enjoyable, I feel you're probably in it for the wrong reasons. Now, we all like to make a bit of money doing something we enjoy, but if making money is your primary goal in playing music... well, it's not the business I would choose.

 

[electracoyote]

What a distraction ... I don't see the point of the OP as being all centered and focused on money at all. It's about opportunities, creating them for your band, and not compromising that principle with some misguided sentiment or false ethical narrative that you should also be promoting other bands and possibly help them leap frog over your band and steal your opportunities.

It's nice to get paid as a musician, especially when you know what an asset you were to the talent buyer, but the relative salaries between superstars and weekend warriors is irrelevant. Just as important as the fee, perhaps even more so, is perpetuating your brand and creating opportunities for YOUR band so you can capitalize on YOUR huge investment of time and money to make it marketable. At the weekend warrior level, the huge time investment is worth protecting, even moreso than the meager fee you charge.

Repeat invitations and bookings are how I compare my band to others, way more than the money we made. Why would I give the talent buyer and audiences reason to believe they should turn their affection away from my band and direct it toward another? Aside from the rare exception (sharing a bill, having someone from another band guest with you, etc.) it's totally unnecessary, and not doing so isn't some kind of sin.

Club owners will chew your ass and even blacklist you if you so much as mention another club from their stage. They're not all warm fuzzy over the brotherly love toward other venues thing. There are several really good reasons for that, money being but one. Why remind his patrons there is somewhere else they could go? That's the last idea he wants you putting in his patrons' heads. Similarly, I would not want my vocalists randomly promoting another band from my stage, unless it's next week's band playing the same stage I'm currently standing on, and that would be solely for the club's benefit.

It is a business; don't shoot yourself in the foot for no good reason. As I said, being negative and dissing other entertainers is patently unprofessional, but there are many reasons you don't see the makers of Coca Cola telling you to try a Pepsi next time. Protect and promote YOUR brand, first and foremost. There is no sainthood for needlessly promoting other bands, and you'll surely cost your band opportunities if you do it enough, especially in a congested competitive environment.

 

[JimmyM]

What a distraction ... I don't see the point of the OP as being all centered and focused on money at all. It's about opportunities, creating them for your band, and not compromising that principle with some misguided sentiment or false ethical narrative that you should also be promoting other bands and possibly help them leap frog over your band and steal your opportunities.

It's nice to get paid as a musician, especially when you know what an asset you were to the talent buyer, but the relative salaries between superstars and weekend warriors is irrelevant. Just as important as the fee, perhaps even more so, is perpetuating your brand and creating opportunities for YOUR band so you can capitalize on YOUR huge investment of time and money to make it marketable. At the weekend warrior level, the huge time investment is worth protecting, even moreso than the meager fee you charge.

Repeat invitations and bookings are how I compare my band to others, way more than the money we made. Why would I give the talent buyer and audiences reason to believe they should turn their affection away from my band and direct it toward another? Aside from the rare exception (sharing a bill, having someone from another band guest with you, etc.) it's totally unnecessary, and not doing so isn't some kind of sin.

Club owners will chew your ass and even blacklist you if you so much as mention another club from their stage. They're not all warm fuzzy over the brotherly love toward other venues thing. There are several really good reasons for that, money being but one. Why remind his patrons there is somewhere else they could go? That's the last idea he wants you putting in his patrons' heads. Similarly, I would not want my vocalists randomly promoting another band from my stage, unless it's next week's band playing the same stage I'm currently standing on, and that would be solely for the club's benefit.

It is a business; don't shoot yourself in the foot for no good reason. As I said, being negative and dissing other entertainers is patently unprofessional, but there are many reasons you don't see the makers of Coca Cola telling you to try a Pepsi next time. Protect and promote YOUR brand, first and foremost. There is no sainthood for needlessly promoting other bands, and you'll surely cost your band opportunities if you do it enough, especially in a congested competitive environment.

Except for one thing...our thing is dependent on creating scenes, especially when doing your own music. Seattle would have never happened in the 90's if there wasn't a scene with many bands contributing. The only reason major record labels signed bands from Seattle is that they had a scene with several worthy bands. Those bands, by and large, supported each other and were friends with each other. Creating scenes works.

 

[electracoyote]

Except for one thing...our thing is dependent on creating scenes, especially when doing your own music. Seattle would have never happened in the 90's if there wasn't a scene with many bands contributing. The only reason major record labels signed bands from Seattle is that they had a scene with several worthy bands. Those bands, by and large, supported each other and were friends with each other. Creating scenes works.

That's a good point, in that situation, but my comments more directly address the OP, which says in part "small-town cover-band land, where we’re all competing for a dwindling number of venues."

Cover Band Land be a brutal place IME. I have a very similar challenge in my neighborhood. Cover band musicians aren't trying to create a scene of original music, they are desperately trying to get booked and justify hammering out standards in the basement for what feels like an eternity. And in my area, there is a glut of really good cover bands competing for a relatively small number of nicer rooms and stages.

Also, my start up is only a couple of years old, and I'm competing with veteran bands that have been at it for well over a decade in some cases. They long ago secured their share of the market and acquired their reputation and familiarity with club owners (largely under their own steam, no doubt). If I want to get my band in on that action, the last thing I'm doing is sending my friends, family, and fans to their gigs.

I'd be happy to give another cover band an honorable mention...under very limited circumstances. But not just for the hell of it out of some misguided sense of duty to the "scene" (the word is almost wholly inappropriate in this context). That is cutting your own cover band's throat around here.

 

[Tulsa Teddy]

In my local scene, I've seen one band play songs written by other bands in the scene and then give them kudos afterwards and tell the audience to check them out next time they're playing. Granted, these are bands playing mostly originals, but fostering the scene helps everyone IMHO.

 

[jlbbassist]

In the music scene around where i play most bands are friendly and help promote each other. It works out well some band gets double book they dont think twice to call up and ask other to cover a show for them guess its not really a competition but everyone wants to see each other do well. Few band have made it out of the local scene and to state and national acts and bring other bands from our scene to open for them and help get their name out there.