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Proper way of using an Avalon U5?

lx_night

lx_night

Sep 3, 2008
631
81
Oklahoma city
#1
I am pretty sure about getting an Avalon U5 very soon. But I have acouple of questions about using this DI.

I plan to use it to record my sadowsky UV-70 5 for a demo for the band and mainly every sunday for church going to the P.A.

So people who have experience with this DI or stuff like this, your advice will be greatly appreciated.

1. What do you guys think about using the avalon as a preamp and DI. For example getiing a regular power amp to power amp to power the cabinet and using the Avalon as the preamp instead of a Markbass head or something similar?

Is it just better to use it as a DI and have a markbass Cab for monitor use? or both?

2. Also if i connect it this way:
plugging the U5's Line out into the fx loop return (power amp in marckbass head)

Does connecting it like this mean that i wont be using the eq of the MB head and only using it as a power amp?

3. The debate i am having is The Avalon U5 or the A-dessing REDDI

Any comments of these units?
 
#2
Cool! I have the exact same question as your nr. 1. So I subscribed :)
So, I can't help you with nr.1. But I have experience using my Markbass LMII purely as a poweramp... and I was far from impressed. It seems like the Markbass pre- and poweramp are voiced to work together. Well that, and I feel the Avalon 'deserves' a better poweramp.
With the LMII, the effects return is in front of the EQ section, so you will be able to use the EQ and VPF/VLE.
 
#3
Well, the Avalon is a great DI. As A pre, some love it, some don't. You can certainly run it in the effects loop and bypass your MarkBass preamp.

For recording, it would be great as well. However, many people say they get great results using a Radial JDI or Countryman DI, both. Are much less expensive and do a great job.

Your Sadowsky will probably sound great no matter what you use.

I have been debating an Avalon...again...but I have a hard time getting one. While they are very sweet, it would be bigger and heavier than my head, another thing to carry, and the DI in my amp sounds great so...

Good luck.
 
#5
The dual outputs on the avalon make it easy to use as a live pre and DI. In a way it's a little like a sadowsky, it sounds ok on it's own but shines in a mix. Wonderfully responsive to your playing too. Personally I wouldn't bother carrying a U5 just to use as a DI, there's other cheaper, more convenient solutions. It's performance as a preamp is what does it for me.

Compared to say an LMII, running a U5 into a power amp will give both more low end extension and more life to your tone. The highs sound more natural and open too. An LMII is a fine amp but a U5 will make it sound somewhat flat and boxy in comparison, ime.

If the eq limitations with a reddi/U5 are a problem the swr marcus miller pre might be worth a look. I tried one briefly in a shop and was surprised at it's performance. Loads of features too.
 
#6
I Forget said:
The dual outputs on the avalon make it easy to use as a live pre and DI. Personally I wouldn't bother carrying a U5 just to use as a DI, there's other cheaper, more convenient solutions. It's performance as a preamp is what does it for me.

Compared to say an LMII, running a U5 into a power amp will give both more low end extension and more life to your tone. The highs sound more natural and open too. An LMII is a fine amp but a U5 will make it sound somewhat flat and boxy in comparison, ime.
Click to expand...

The multiple outputs are awesome. I count three - the "thru" on front and the two XLR's (line and mic) on the back.

I also think the best way to use it for a preamp is to not go through the loop but to use a dedicated power amp and cab.
 
#7
Thanks guys for the input!

I think many of you are right on using the avalon as a pre, it might sound a bit thin.
Here is the deal:

I am attracted to the U5 because it has a headphone out as well and everybody says it is very clear, and if i want some bottom end i can add more bass on my sado preamp or hook up my RC Booster pedal.
Would it be ok to hook up a pedal to the like the RC to the U5?

And what attracts me to the REDDI is that most people say it has nice bottom (more than the U5) and it can still be clear. (I dont plan on hooking up the RC booster to this)

Last very important question though:

Ive read a couple say this:
Both the REDDI and the U5 are not really ment for live use, you cant really tell the difference when used live, they are mainly meant for studio use.

Is this true?
 
#9
lx_night said:
I think many of you are right on using the avalon as a pre, it might sound a bit thin.

Both the REDDI and the U5 are not really ment for live use, you cant really tell the difference when used live, they are mainly meant for studio use.
Click to expand...

I don't think it sounds thin at all - live or studio.

As for live use, the REDDI isn't really and the designer will tell you that. Yet, I've seen it used live.

The Avalon gets used live ALL THE TIME by all kinds of people. I see one on almost every stage.
 
#11
The U5 records splendidly. I use it as a pre into my IP cab and as a straight DI before a GB Shuttle 12 or my effects, depending on what I need. In front of some amps, like the Shuttle 12, it opens the amp up and really makes it sing IMO. In front of other amps, it doesn't do so well. As for only being for studio use, I use mine in the studio and on stage. I cannot speak as to a comparison between the REDDI and the U5.
 
#12
I use mine in the studio and on stage. I cannot speak as to a comparison between the REDDI and the U5.[/QUOTE]

Can you describe the difference between using a regular DI and using the avalon live?

I ask this because i do more live playing than recording.
 
#13
I mixed a show Saturday where the bassist in the closing act used a U5 ahead of the house rig. He sent the thru signal to the house amp - which IMO is the proper use of the U5 and the DI signal to the FOH.

Basses in use were a URB and Dano longhorn - both basses sounded great. Super solid, not too bright. A joy to mix.

The guy before him used my Fishman Pro Platinum (URB only) - he sounded great as well.

The guy in the opener used an MXR M-80 - Dingwall Super J 5 and he got a great tone though it was a rockin' set and he wanted the dirt ...

Three rather different levels of DI and guess what - out front it was easy to work with all of them. We even had an act that used the on board from the house SWR rig - that worked too ...

IME - the hand wringing and teeth nashing over a DI's affect on live tone is a time waste. The differences @ even 20 feet are extremely subtle and are almost if not completely lost in a band/ensemble context at anything more than rather low volume.

Going into the power amp in / effects return / using a bare power amp also cut's you out of the front end EQ on the amp - you will encounter rooms where that EQ can save your butt ... for the very slight improvement in clatity - it just isn't worth it. It also bypasses the onboard Mute switch - if you use it - that could be an issue.

For me, the majority of the time, my rig is stage monitor and there is FOH doing the heavy lifting. I'm playing electro-acoustic basses (piezo) under acoustic instruments in an environment where there is an emphasis on harmony vocals more often than not.

Generally there are no drums so I have the bottom to myself and I am the rhythm section. So my bass is mixed right out front. I'm pretty happy with what I get from a SansAmp ParaDriver and Fishman Pro Platinum EQ. I sure wouldn't turn down a U5 but it really won't provide life changing tone ...
 
#14
I use the U5 in a pre/power combo and as a DI for most gigs. Thin is not even in the U5's vocabulary. I can only describe the sound as clean and fat. That said I use a LMII for most rehearsals and smaller stage gigs, because lugging that rack case around can be a burden at times. Most of the time I don't even use the tone-shaping presets, but I like settings 3 and 4.

If I were using my U5 with my LMII, I would use the thru output on the front of the avalon direct to the instrument in on the LMII. That way I would have more control of the level going to FOH from the U5 (most sound guys have asked for it to be on 3 or 4) and boost the gain on the MB head if necessary to get the tone I want on stage.

I think the markbass sounds good, and the DI-out is fine, but i ALWAYS get compliments on the U5 from other musicians and FOH. The REDDI is going to have a lot more color to it. It's very popular among guys who like a tube-y sound, but if you're already using a solid state MB combo, then I say go for the Avalon ($400 used) and you'll have a fantastic, clean, fat, pre/di for live and studio use.

Also, I wouldn't say that the U5 isn't meant for live use. I see it used on a regular basis by fantastic bassists as mentioned above, Tal, I've also seen Pino use one a lot w/ the John Mayer Trio. To me, neither of those players have the same sound, which speaks to the U5's versatility.

Here's one of the rigs I use it with. It's a bad picture, but it'll have to do.

IMG_0366.jpg
 
#15
i think my mind is made up on getting a U5.
however i will sell my MB combo and probably get an aguilar cab and power amp.

i have a friend who is on tour right now with andy kirk oppening for adrea battestelli and aron shusts and he says he has his U5 with some cheap piano speakers and it sounds great!

i know i will be using the U5 because we will starting recirding soon, but at the moment it is more live stuff.

how much will one powerfull 500 watt cab and power amp run me?
 
#17
lx_night said:
i think my mind is made up on getting a U5.
however i will sell my MB combo and probably get an aguilar cab and power amp.

i have a friend who is on tour right now with andy kirk oppening for adrea battestelli and aron shusts and he says he has his U5 with some cheap piano speakers and it sounds great!

i know i will be using the U5 because we will starting recirding soon, but at the moment it is more live stuff.

how much will one powerfull 500 watt cab and power amp run me?
Click to expand...

Cool! I'm very interested in your findings. Keep us posted.

As far as cabs go. I would go with the aguilar 1x12" or 2x12". Depending on your budget. The Aguilar twelves will give you a great warmth/punch combination which is awesome for a Jazz bass. You might also consider two 1x12" cabs stacked upon eachother. That's what I use and according to kai_ski's picture, he does too :). The lower 12", coupled with the ground gives more warmth and lows, while the upper 12" gives more clarity and punch. Also more portable then a single 2x12 cab. Too bad you don't live in Holland, because you should definitly check out my Vanderkley 112MT cabs! ;)
 
#20
Forgive my incoherent babble...

I have a U5 and use it as Preamp and a DI, both live and for recording. To be honest, the first time I ever ran my Jazz bass through a U5 into the power-amp input on my Aguilar AG500 with 2 Aggie 12" cabs, I just about pooped my pants. It was *THE* quintessential Jazz bass tone, if I'd ever heard it. It was almost like every iconic jazz bass rolled into one and coming out of my rig!

However, I've since changed things up a little and come to realize that the U5 isn't really a "flat" or "transparent" pre/DI. It still sounds fantastic, but there is some coloration to the tone. The highs are crisp and clear, and the lows are big and beefy, but there's a little, tiny bit of mid-scoop. I think it would go really well with the Sadowsky if that's you're thing. Personally, I'm a little more into Anthony Jackson's tone than Marcus Miller's. As such, I'm definitely more of a "Pbass guy" than a "Jbass guy", specifically I'm a "G&L guy", and I think the extended lows and highs of the U5 create more of a modern jazz bass, mid-scoop, kinda sound. Relatively speaking, of course... I don't care for it as much with my G&Ls because of the extensive lows already produced by the G&L. I've actually had to run presets 4-6 with the G&Ls just because the sound was SO big (i.e. boomy).

In addition to the U5, I also use a Radial JDI (about as colorless as I've ever heard), and an old (1994) SWR Bass 350 - also about as colorless as you can get, with the exception of the tube and a little more high-end extension from the transformerless DI. Neither DI sounds "thin" or deficient in any way, and both are at times desirable to the U5 simply because they are so pure. It really depends on the situation, though. As a rule of thumb, I like the U5 with J-basses and more modern mid-scooped basses. I prefer the JDI, SWR, and even my Epifani DIs for a Pbass, fretless, or other mid-heavy tones.

But, you can't go wrong with a U5, IMO. Just expect to hear some "extra" stuff, tasty as it is. Another consideration for live use with the U5 is that it CAN NOT handle phantom power. I don't use mine at church (and I originally purchased the JDI) for that reason. Sure, you can ground-lift it, but it's better to not apply that 48VDC to the output stages to begin with. If that's not an issue, then go for it. Otherwise, beware.

Another way I like to run the U5 is as a preamp into my the effects return of my SWR Bass 350 or even my Epifani UL502. It sounds fantastic with the SWR power section! Mainly I do so as an extra preamp to mix in a second bass to the main SWR input when I'm playing live. I usually use the 2-channel Epifani with 2 basses, though.

The multiple outputs are also great. In some cases, I have to use the mic output instead of the line output because the line output can be too hot with my G&L basses, even with the gain all the way down. It's also nice to drive a signal into an iso booth via one output to "reamp" though a miked amp, while the other output goes direct to the board/mic pre/AD, etc. Kind of a swiss-army knife for the studio.

As much as I love mine, though I'm considering selling it. My Epifani covers most of my live needs and has a suitable DI, and my JDI gets more use that I expected (well, it fits into my bag and doesn't require a power source, and it sounds great), and the SWR DI impresses me more and more every time I use it. All that adds up to a U5 that gets less use than it could.

I know I've rambled on a bit, but hopefully I've given some food for thought. Overall, the U5 is a fantastic DI and I love mine. Since I don't always record in well-stocked pro studios, I can't always rely on a great studio preamp to bring the signal of the JDI up, and I always know exactly what I'll get with the Avalon in the chain. I'll probably keep it around for that reason alone... It's a great tool to have if you can swing it.
 
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