punctuality- when to make an issue of it?

[fhm555]

...but remember, we are not saving lives here, we play music and it is NOT very serious no matter how seriously you perfer to take yourselves...

First band I was in was lame as heck but we were trying. One day we go to a local park to shoot some band photos. There is an empty wine bottle laying near a low wall the photog wants us to sit on and I stand it up in front of me for no other reason than it's there and I'm bored with all the waiting for everything to be arranged just so before the actual shooting can begin. The leader of this mess so desperately trying to become a band sees the bottle and goes off on a rant about how he's never gonna let his mom see something like that on THE ALBUM COVER, and he's heart attack serious. he did go on to become a sound reinforcement pro specializing in church PA so I guess he's kinda sorta living the dream, but he never got that album cover to be ashamed of.

I have a good friend/fellow musician who's in recovery now for more than 20 years and he insists there is actually a little known 13th step which must be worked constantly for any addiction recovery to be truly successful.

He says this 13th step is "Quit Taking yourself so #^%@ seriously."

 

[MatticusMania]

Being late is a symptom of arrogance.

Or an overly busy schedule with other events that can possibly run late.

 

[eSmith]

Stinsok: Being late is a symptom of arrogance

Actually, one could just as easily say an obsession with others time schedules and that long look down your nose at them you seem to think your entitled to makes you the arrogant one.

Seriously I think MatticusMania is right, it could also be a symptom of other things and until you know the details you simply cannot apply blanket statments like you did there above and paint everyone with the same brush.

-eSmith.

 

[fmoore200]

I grew up in my grandfathers house. He was from Germany and did not tolerate lateness at all. I was 16 years old and had a curfew of 9pm on weekends. If I was 1 minute late, I was docked a 1/2 hour the next day! Suffice it to say, I am a very punctual adult.

 

[lucas vigor]

There are dealbreakers, and then there are not:

Dealbreakers:

1. Habitually late for a paying gig
2. Habitually late for practice with a paying, cover band
3. Habitually late for practice at a rehearsal space that you have to pay for.


Anything else, I would seriously let it slide because no matter how important your band may be to you, it still falls under the heading of "Hobby". Frankly, if you are running an original band and you are not paying the players, you should be happy they are there at all...late or not late! They are doing YOU a favor by agreeing to help YOUR band out for free. Spending 2-3 hours a week with you when they could be with their families, or working a second job, or just relaxing from their one job which is a hard job....

Really, half the time I go to practice everyone except myself has forgotten what we learned from last week anyway...and half the time I feel like I am serving as someone else's "Live play-along CD" or "Human Karioke box" because the other people don't take the time to learn and memorize the songs on thier own, or can't visualize the other instrument's parts on thier own when practicing at home.

Often times, I don't get off work at time, and then live 18 miles away from the practice area. Yet, they expect me to be at practice a mere hour after my supposed end time at work. Sorry, but I need a minute to unwind after work and eat something...I am not going to kill myself to get to practice on time under those conditions. 99% of the time I do make it on time, of course...but **** happens, you know? Save the whip cracking for something more important....

 

[eSmith]

Great post Lucas,

I agree with you about the dealbreakers. As a hobby it's casual but in a paying band with commitments it does make it different. Anything you or someone else has to pay for requires someone with a healthy respect for time.

After that it's all about meeting at the sandbox on saturday morning after cartoons. (do they still do that? or did 24 hour cartoon channels ruin it for this generation?)

-eSmith.

 

[TRichardsbass]

I basically walked away from a southern rock cover band gig because of this.

Guitard, who also was the "leader" of the band, was always 40-50 minutes "late" every time when he showed, and frequently never showed. Now I missed some practices because of my day job situation, but I always gave the guys at least a days notice, and I always paid my share of the rehearsal space if they had to pay anyway (only happened once, and it wasn't because of me.) this is one of the few times I basically walked away and didn't really give 'em notice. The band was not gigging nor had any booked shows, and I was learning material I've never played in my life. (Some songs by the Allmans can go on forever and the band leader insisted on a note for note perfection of the Outlaws Green Grass and High Tides 20+ minute live version.)

I was investing way too much time for the band leader, no matter how talented, to never show on time. You cannot gel as a group without good practice, and that requiires everyone to be on time, especially if you are paying for a top notch rehearsal space.

I think your peeve is justified. Don't get all squishy on yourself. While not everyone treats the band situation the same, everyone should at least respect each others time. 15 minutes is more then enough, especially if NO ONE shows. It would be different if several of you showed up and one was missing for longer, but in your case, since you did not have any different knowledge of the time, waiting 15 minutes for chronically late dudes is more then sufficient.

My $.02

 

[gnjpowell]

There is no such thing as "on time". One is either early or one is late. It is only is possible to be "on time" if you are EARLY!

 

[eSmith]

40-50 minutes late.... well, at some point your not late. you didn't make it at all and just came . Late is 20 mins tops.

I would agree with you Tom, in a professional band, people need to act professional. It's a job at that point not a hobby.

However, if we say we will meet at 5pm for a jam (professional or hobby) and I show up at 5pm. I'm on time, I don't care what anyone says, I met my comittment and kept my word. this whole idea that you have to be early to be on time......

Well, your exactly as wrong as the guy who thinks 40-50 minutes late is acceptable but are taking it to the OTHER extreme.

-eSmith.

 

[groooooove]

depends on the environment.

ive been in jambands with friends where "6 pm" meant anywhere from 5-8pm, we would all stroll in when we did. wich is fine for the friends playing in a band type deal.

if your a professional musician hired to do anything, if your not arriving early, you wont get that job again, nor will they recommend you to anyone else. being reliable is as important as your skill level. if i'm setting something up, people who arrive late dont get called back. its just not professional.

explain this to them, and if it doesn't work out, either accept it or move on to a more professional environment.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Temper got the better of me today when I got tired of waiting around for the rest of the band to show up to practice. I showed up 15 minutes early and waited until everyone was 15 minutes late and then packed up and left. If this had been the first time they had been late to something I probably would have waited a little while longer but I'm getting tired of being the only person who is consistently on time.

So for those of you that has had this problem were you able to correct it? Should I issue an ultimatum like be on time or find another bass player?

i think that with the advent of cell phones showing up late without a heads up is really bad form.....waiting 15 minutes before you left sounds about right to me.....the time to discus punctuality is right at the time you are assembling the players for the project,and the time to make an issue is the first time someone is late....as in "dude you could have called"....

ten/fifteen minutes before practice begins to arrive and set up seems reasonable, if everyone knows up front,and i guess it is up to each band to determine if someone who is perpetually late is really worth the hassle...

 

[Lyske]

In my band it's pretty easy to be on time because we meet in the city
and our singer picks us up with her car.
And me and our drummer go to school near the meeting point so we just hang around and our guitarist is bartender and he is also like 5 minutes from the meeting point.
Nobody is late except when Marlies is stuck in traffic

 

[OriginalSnub]

Yeah they aren't extremely busy people, I'm not the band leader. Practice is at the guitar player's house and even he wasn't there. I also drive 80 miles round trip for every practice and it just gets on my nerves sometimes while I'm sitting outside waiting for someone to show up so I can unload and set up.

Maybe it's just me but if I tell someone to be at my house at a certain time then I make sure I'm there regardless of why they are coming.

 

[lucas vigor]

Yeah they aren't extremely busy people, I'm not the band leader. Practice is at the guitar player's house and even he wasn't there. I also drive 80 miles round trip for every practice and it just gets on my nerves sometimes while I'm sitting outside waiting for someone to show up so I can unload and set up.Maybe it's just me but if I tell someone to be at my house at a certain time then I make sure I'm there regardless of why they are coming.

That makes a pretty big difference, in my opinion. You are making a really big sacrifce of your time...


What I was more referring to are those band leaders with Hitler complexes that like to run an original, non-paying band like it's the most important thing in the world...and give you a stink-eye if you are ten minutes late, or make a big deal about it when you call to let them know you are running late. I have had some experience in the past with this....

but your situation seems to be a lot different, now that you mentioned the time and miles it takes to get there..and you have to wait outside in your car. That's BS, and I wouldn't put up with it either.

 

[Stinsok]

Everyone can have an unexpected delay. Putting up with people that make a habit of being late isn't worth it. It's disrepectful.

 

[OriginalSnub]

That makes a pretty big difference, in my opinion. You are making a really big sacrifce of your time...


What I was more referring to are those band leaders with Hitler complexes that like to run an original, non-paying band like it's the most important thing in the world...and give you a stink-eye if you are ten minutes late, or make a big deal about it when you call to let them know you are running late. I have had some experience in the past with this....

but your situation seems to be a lot different, now that you mentioned the time and miles it takes to get there..and you have to wait outside in your car. That's BS, and I wouldn't put up with it either.

Yeah I've played with the over controlling types and it has always ended badly. I funnily enough had one of them call me recently, apparently he didn't realize that he burnt that bridge, to see if I was interested in some project of his (I politely said no).

 

[fhm555]

I've had two paying jobs, the weekly money to rehearse and play out kind of thing. When I went and tried out, terms were always laid out by the people doing the looking (and paying) and since it was for money, I accepted the terms as if it was any other job, then did my best to keep to those terms, and when I could no longer do so I gave notice and again did my best to not leave them high and dry. It didn't pay enough to live on either time, but it paid a buttload more than sitting in front of the TV.

After my early experience with album cover guy I just quit taking folks in music very seriously. Not overtly or anything, perhaps it would be better described as I quit buying in to other folk's fantasy about fame and fortune in the music biz, but kept that aspect of our relationship strictly to myself. I also NEVER talked/gossiped about another band mate unless that individual was present to hear what I had to say. It can be tough because music is also where I've met the highest ratio of drama addicts to normal people in any given peer group so I've had plenty of experience telling people I have zero interest in talking about someone else behind their backs, especially when it's such a weighty subject as how the tilt of their hat is throwing the whiner off their game on stage. It's even more pathetic when the "stage" is some back porch at a private birthday party where we are playing for cake.

I figure my experience in music should (conservatively) be worth at least 50 hours of course credit toward an abnormal psychology degree.

 

[hellfleet]

There are only 2 acceptable excuses:
1.) "Bro, she's in labor right now..."
and
2.) "I'm stopping to get beer..."

other than that, how many times in your life have you honestly, truefully been late by no fault of your own?
Catching that last minute of Family Guy is usually the culprit.

I live in an apartment complex with an underground carpark where I was parked up. There is remote control shutter access to this car park. Last weekend I loaded my car up, drove to the shutters then realised I'd left my remote control at work. My landlord wont give me a spare so I had to sit there and wait for someone to drop by that could open the doors. It made me half an hour late to rehearsal. Thankfully they laughed at my stupidity but didn't make too big a deal of it.