Purpose of Neck Shims?

[georgestrings]

Some of the SX basses benefit quite nicely from a full length shim. A full length shim is a valid option on some basses.

Yeah, I could see that as an option for an instrument that was very poorly made to begin with - however, it's pretty much unheard of to use one on anything halfway decently built to begin with...

Let's put it this way - I've never heard any skilled luthier advocate one as much as mongo here does...


- georgestrings

 

[mongo2]

Let's put it this way - I've never heard any skilled luthier advocate one as much as mongo here does...

There you go trying to be insulting again. How do you know anything about my level of skill? Just because you don't approve of my method doesn't mean anything about my skill level. But it does say a lot about you.

Perhaps you should open your mind and learn something. It can be applied to any bolt/screw on neck instrument. A flat shim is just another tool.

 

[joeyl]

Some of the SX basses benefit quite nicely from a full length shim. A full length shim is a valid option on some basses.

It's funny you say that because I have a Fender clone body that I am using a Fender neck on. Looks like the pocket is overall 1 mm too deep. A whole pocket shim of 1 mm would be nice in that case.

 

[georgestrings]

There you go trying to be insulting again. How do you know anything about my level of skill? Just because you don't approve of my method doesn't mean anything about my skill level. But it does say a lot about you.

Perhaps you should open your mind and learn something. It can be applied to any bolt/screw on neck instrument.

Here's a hint for you - I'm not the one acting defensive here...

I've actually tried using full length shims in the past - and came to the realization that Leo actually DID know what he was doing in that regard... It isn't just the shim issue - I've seen you post other things here that led me to believe the kitchen table thing about you...


- georgestrings

 

[joeyl]

I'm on my second batch of popcorn

 

[hdracer]

It's funny you say that because I have a Fender clone body that I am using a Fender neck on. Looks like the pocket is overall 1 mm too deep. A whole pocket shim of 1 mm would be nice in that case.

I have to agree that in some cases a full length shim is the best way to do it. Like after de fretting a neck or putting together a parts bass and the pocket is to deep for the neck. I have gone to a full length shim when I need more then a .065 heel shim to get the action down enough so I can raise the saddles up enough to get a good break angle.
If you put to big of a heel shim in the pocket you are may run into problems with the screw holes stripping and not enough neck to body contact. Then you start other problems.

 

[mongo2]

Here's a hint for you - I'm not the one acting defensive here...

I've actually tried using full length shims in the past - and came to the realization that Leo actually DID know what he was doing in that regard... It isn't just the shim issue - I've seen you post other things here that led me to believe the kitchen table thing about you...

LOL. Do you realize how petty you sound?

This may be a shocker for you, but invoking the name of "Leo" doesn't make you right. There's more that one way to do things.

 

[Joshua]

Cease and desist immediately with the banter that is forcing me to decide if someone is in violation of rule #1 (respect). I will always err on the side of caution...

 

[Rip Topaz]

Dangit!!! My popcorn just finished!!

 

[mongo2]

Cease and desist immediately with the banter that is forcing me to decide if someone is in violation of rule #1 (respect).

As you wish.

 

[Maud]

I think Mongo2s idea is exactly what I'm after.
I have a Yam RBX374 which plays really nicely, no fret buzz or any other issues apart from that I would like the action a tiny bit lower, but the saddles are bottomed out, it won't go as low as my Yam BBG5S which has lovely (for me) super low action because of the saddles bottoming out. I don't want or need to change any angles, just lift the entire neck to give me some saddle adjustment back, and a greater break angle can surely only be a bonus.
If I tilt the neck with a shim then I will need to do truss rod adjustment to get rid of the 'dip' in the centre of the neck.
Also won't a flat shim be better for neck to body contact?

 

[mongo2]

If I tilt the neck with a shim then I will need to do truss rod adjustment to get rid of the 'dip' in the centre of the neck.

Possibly not, but it's not a big deal if it is required.

Also won't a flat shim be better for neck to body contact?

IME yes, which is also the principle behind my use of a stairstep tape wedge shim. Whether that contact is beneficial or not seems to be debatable, but I prefer it.

 

[96tbird]

I have ons bass I needed to shim; Epi Tbird, just bottomed out on the three pointer. At hand I had some maple veneer business cards. I used a small piece in the tail of the pocket.... too much angle. Put two full length shims in and it was perfect, just what I wanted. Whatever it takes is the correct answer to the problem no matter what someone else thinks.

 

[walterw]

shims are useful to correct issues with saddle height (running out of adjustment room, not having the desired string break angle), and nothing else.

they will not help a ski-ramped neck, at least not any differently than jacking the saddle height up would.

the full-length flat shim thing never made much sense to me, as you'd need a way thicker one to get the same results as a normal angle-changing shim.

the stairstep tape layer thing is legit; my own variation is to use the shim thickness i need at one end of the pocket, then put a thinner shim in the middle of the pocket, laying a short straightedge across the pocket and sliding the middle shim along until it touches.

i glue them in place, and i have my corrected neck angle with a pocket that is supported in the middle.

 

[mongo2]

they will not help a ski-ramped neck, at least not any differently than jacking the saddle height up would.

I've noticed that the feel of the instrument is much different between those two methods.

 

[Joshua]

Please leave moderating to the moderators.

 

[Zooberwerx]

shims are useful to correct issues with saddle height (running out of adjustment room, not having the desired string break angle), and nothing else.

they will not help a ski-ramped neck, at least not any differently than jacking the saddle height up would.

the full-length flat shim thing never made much sense to me, as you'd need a way thicker one to get the same results as a normal angle-changing shim.

the stairstep tape layer thing is legit; my own variation is to use the shim thickness i need at one end of the pocket, then put a thinner shim in the middle of the pocket, laying a short straightedge across the pocket and sliding the middle shim along until it touches.

i glue them in place, and i have my corrected neck angle with a pocket that is supported in the middle.

Thank you, Walter....that is the correct answer! A wonky neck will remain a wonky neck irrespective of shims installed. Shims will not correct ski jumps, excessive neck bow, S curves, twists, warps, or any other maladies that are a product of the neck's topographical inconsistencies in relationship to itself.

On a brighter note, I have a limited supply of ultra-thin maple veneer scraps...not much thicker than a sheet of printer photo paper...which I'll make available for anyone needing to fabricate a shim. These are thin enough to glue 2-3 together to achieve the desired thickness which may be handy if attempting a "stepped" shim configuration. PM me if you have a true need as I don't have tons of the stuff.

Riis

 

[mongo2]

Shims will not correct ski jumps

Of course a shim cannot correct a ski jump in a neck per se, but proper shimming can compensate for the jump and make an otherwise unplayable bass into a playable instrument. I've done it more than a few times. How effective it is depends on how bad the jump is...some necks simply can't be saved without surgery on the neck or replacement.

 

[walterw]

Of course a shim cannot correct a ski jump in a neck per se, but proper shimming can compensate for the jump...

sure, if you run out of height adjustment room on the saddles. it doesn't "compensate" for anything, though; you end up with the strings just as far from the neck either way.

as for "feel" differences, i could see how one way makes for strings closer to the body than the other, but actual string action off the frets ends up the same.

 

[Staccato]

Technically you don't use them to lower your action, you use them to improve the angle the neck meets the body if the current angle is not satisfactory. This in turn allows you to adjust the bass for a lower action.

Technically, yes.

As a practical matter, someone that is versed (very experienced) with setups would do this-preferably a luthier or other, very qualified individual. If you want to learn on your own bass, you're asking for disappointment. Those that understand the geometry involved have a leg up.

If you can't spell geometry, leave it to a Pro!