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Purpose of Neck Shims?

#63
96tbird said:
No man, I personally own 5 bolt ons and only 1 has a shim. Plus I don't get why you'd want to sand the heel. A tapered shim is better than an irreversible alteration. But, sand away Grendle, sand away!
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No not me, ill shim. Just seen it done by people who knew what they were doing.

All my bolt ons have needed a shim though to get them right, except the Spector. The neck pocket is so deep and tight its more like a set neck. The neck will only slide in from the end and everything needs to be straight for it to fit. Never seen a bass with that tight of a pocket. Still don't like the tone though compared to my NT's. No shim needed there though lol
 
#64
grendle said:
My rebop is the only bolt on in 20+ years that didn't need a shim. They all do to get them right. You can also sand the neck if you prefer.
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Never sand the neck. Ever. Try mounting a neck on which the heel has been rounded. You will not be happy. If a permanent alteration must be done the body is the choice. Much easier to machine. Much easier to address cosmetics.


96tbird said:
A tapered shim is better than an irreversible alteration.
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Succinct.
 
#65
grendle said:
No not me, ill shim. Just seen it done by people who knew what they were doing.

All my bolt ons have needed a shim though to get them right, except the Spector. The neck pocket is so deep and tight its more like a set neck. The neck will only slide in from the end and everything needs to be straight for it to fit. Never seen a bass with that tight of a pocket. Still don't like the tone though compared to my NT's. No shim needed there though lol
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You don't shim your neck-throughs?! :eek:




;)
 
#68
grendle said:
You don't round the heal, some guys (experienced builders) sand the flat mounting area at an angle instead of shimming.
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They shim the neck , then measure the shim. Usually put the neck in a vise at an angle with the thickness of the shim at the high part above the vise, then sand it flat. Most of those guys consider that a necessary part of the first setup on a new guitar. Kind of something the mfr left unfinished intentionally, with the idea that it would be done and set to the players prefrence. Not something I would do myself, but I don't generally play bolt on instruments either (except guitars).
 
#72
Here's a thought worth sharing....

Whenever you modify ANYTHING - instrument, automobile, you name it - leaving yourself a return path is usually a good idea.

That means: do the mod so that you can UN-do it if it doesn't work out.

Under this guideline, shimming would be more practical (and infinitely more reversible) than sanding or modifying a neck. You can always change or remove a shim.
 
#73
joeyl said:
why not, they are in your profile anyway? :hiding:
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Then why ask? And they (basses) might be others that I didn't put in my profile yet...........and no reason why I should defame the builders.....I live in a damp and sometimes cold environment....new wood expands and thins out before weathering....adjustments must be made sometime.....luthiers with one person small businesses don't have the opportunity or $$ to have wood weathering for years in their basements....and put their reputation on their wood furnishers and sometimes it's not a 100% weathered dry kilned wood.....need any more explanations....?
 
#74
loopee said:
luthiers with one person small businesses don't have the opportunity or $$ to have wood weathering for years in their basements....and put their reputation on their wood furnishers and sometimes it's not a 100% weathered dry kilned wood.....need any more explanations....?
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Using "green" or otherwise improperly dried wood in an instrument is just asking for trouble. I doubt very much that a reputable luthier would use it. There are meters readily available so it's a simple thing to check the moisture content of a piece of wood.
 
#77
There's pretty much only two choices being the wood is properly seasoned (dried) or it isn't.

Though a more strict definition of green wood is wood that is recently cut and not yet seasoned, around here wood that isn't properly seasoned is often referred to as "green" or "still a bit green" or "too green." It's just a generic term here amongst the fireplace/woodburning stove users, which is why I originally put it in quotes.
 
#78
loopee said:
Then why ask? And they (basses) might be others that I didn't put in my profile yet...........and no reason why I should defame the builders.....I live in a damp and sometimes cold environment....new wood expands and thins out before weathering....adjustments must be made sometime.....luthiers with one person small businesses don't have the opportunity or $$ to have wood weathering for years in their basements....and put their reputation on their wood furnishers and sometimes it's not a 100% weathered dry kilned wood.....need any more explanations....?
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no I don't need any more explanations ;) I admire your loyalty to your builder and giving him a fair shake for being a small builder. However, like mongo said, it is not hard to check the dryness of the wood.

And giving out an honest opinion about a product that you use is not defaming the builder. Remember it is not defamation if it is the truth.
 
#79
Can somebody give a solid definition for "BREAK ANGLE"?

I'm going back-and-forth between adjusting neck relief, then saddle heights - trying to come up with a lower, buzzless action on my LTD 5-string. I'm sure it doesn't need shimming, but I feel like I'm missing something...and maybe the key is to understand BREAK ANGLE and exactly what a correct break angle is.
 
#80
JacoNOT said:
Can somebody give a solid definition for "BREAK ANGLE"?

I'm going back-and-forth between adjusting neck relief, then saddle heights - trying to come up with a lower, buzzless action on my LTD 5-string. I'm sure it doesn't need shimming, but I feel like I'm missing something...and maybe the key is to understand BREAK ANGLE and exactly what a correct break angle is.
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Break angle is the angle of the string from the saddle to the tailpiece. It is also the angle of the string from the nut to tuning peg. The term comes from the idea that the string "breaks" as it leaves a stop point (nut or saddle).

Incorrect (not enough) break angle at the nut sometimes causes the string to rattle in the nut. This is exacerbated by lack of witness point. Break angle is easy to change at the nut.

Incorrect (not enough) break angle at the saddle can lead to occasional buzzing at the bridge. Witness point is also important here, too. One piece bridges make it impossible to change the break angle at the bridge. The exception is a bridge that allows top mount or string-through options.

It was once thought that increasing break angle would increase string tension. It does not.

It is sometimes suggested that changing the break angle significantly changes tone. Like all things tone, it is purely subjective.
 

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