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Putting together a basic PA, need mixer help.

#21
After some thought, I've decided to go with a new board. Usually, I try to find local deals in pawn shops. The boards that I've found have all been somewhat beat up, with markers on the channels with "dead" that lead me to wonder if that means they didn't use that channel, or if that channel doesn't work. I don't know much about testing boards, or operating them, so I figured this would be one of the situations that I would be better off with something new, that has a warranty, and a manual to make sure I know how to work it.

I ended up getting the Allen and Heath Zed-14. It should arrive tomorrow. I'm planning to use it for as long as I can, and if I need to upgrade in the future I will look into the MixWiz series. The Zed should last me for quite a while, though. I also like the USB out for recording (podcasting and the like with another project I'm involved with). I think it's a good purchase and I'm very much looking forward to getting it. Thanks again for all the suggestions and help!
 
#23
I have the 01v96 and a LS9 32 and I couldn't live without the capabilities now, not in your budget but it is something to build up to.

There is something to be said when you need to insert a compressor or Gate and all you have to do is soft patch it in

Ahh....
 
#24
My recommendation is to find some passive 15" speakers such as Yamaha S115's. Probably get a used pair on CL for $200. A ton of Mackie 1604 boards in service out there for around $200. Find a used 300 watt power amp for another $150 and your good to go. Add monitors and upgrade the power amps / and vocal effects down the road. The Yamaha speakers and Mackie board don't need to be upgraded. 15" mains are designed to mic drums without having to use subwoofers. My band has been running a similar system for years although we have added a snake/ JBL monitors/QSC power amps etc etc but still running the Yamaha/Mackie basics.
 
#25
mboogiemanusa said:
My recommendation is to find some passive 15" speakers such as Yamaha S115's. Probably get a used pair on CL for $200. A ton of Mackie 1604 boards in service out there for around $200. Find a used 300 watt power amp for another $150 and your good to go. Add monitors and upgrade the power amps / and vocal effects down the road. The Yamaha speakers and Mackie board don't need to be upgraded. 15" mains are designed to mic drums without having to use subwoofers. My band has been running a similar system for years although we have added a snake/ JBL monitors/QSC power amps etc etc but still running the Yamaha/Mackie basics.
Click to expand...

You can't get a decent kick drum sound out of a pair of speakers on poles IMO. :confused:
 
#27
mboogiemanusa said:
We are talking about a budget entree level system for practice and local gigging. When the band advances to the next level and has some cash to invest, then by all means upgrade the FOH. 15"s will get you to that point just fine as a nice compromise. 12"s are just to tinny even for vocals.
Click to expand...

WRONG! :rollno: Go to a real live sound forum and say something that ignorant they they ride your a** out of town. I have some JBL PRX512ms that actually go lower than your yamahas, oh and they sound better too.:D
 
#28
If going for powered speakers and looking at Thumps I would recommend considering the yamaha MSR400's. They are not 15's but higher power, better detail/clarity and better low end.
When you are ready to upgrade from there they can be used for monitors. Have mixed with thumps and they do the job but the MSR400 are better at a little more cost. (I worked in pro audio sales quite a while and have demo'd a wall of powered cabs side by side millions of times)
the port design in the MSR's really makes them sound full for just a 12".
 
#29
I'm not exactly sure what speakers I'll be going with, yet. Right now, since all we're doing is practice (I ain't talkin' 'bout a game, I'm talkin' 'bout practice!), I bought a 4-channel headphone amp that will allow us to practice at low volumes (we practice in an apartment above a business that sometimes has employees there after hours). Speakers will probably be my next project/purchase.

I mentioned earlier that I'm also doing some sound work for a comedy/theatre group I'm part of. My original plan was to get some 12" Mackie Thumps (or similar; lower end, budget-friendly powered speakers) to use for mains for the comedy group and band practice, then when we start gigging, I'd use the 12's for monitors and add a set of 15's for FOH. That may still be the direction I go, but I'm thinking seriously about changing that up.

I've got a set of plans for the BFM Jack 12, I've been planning to build one for a while for a bass cab. Now, I'm thinking of building (or trying to build) several. I could use them, if configured correctly, for PA mains for both the comedy group and my band, and I still want to build a couple for my bass rig. The small size is a huge plus, and they don't take a ton of power which is great - I wouldn't need a 1.21 gigawatt power amp to make us heard, which would save money.

I figure I'm already going to buy a case for the mixer to help prevent damage, and a case with a couple of rack spaces isn't any more expensive. If I get a couple of power amps and some type of outboard FX/EQ/processor/whatever and throw them all in a case together, it'll still be somewhat self-contained, just in a MUCH bigger package than either the Yamaha board I was looking at or a powered mixer, but I think I'll have a more versatile system than if I were to just keep adding more and more (comparatively) cheap powered speakers.

The downside to that is it will (possibly) be more difficult to run, setup, and it'll have a much steeper learning curve. But I really am interested in live sound, and I've wanted to do this type of thing for a long time. I don't mind spending the time necessary to learn what each thing does, its purpose, and how to make it work for me and our situation. I DO want something user-friendly, but I don't want something that won't offer many options once I learn what I'm doing. I figure I'll only be new to this for a little while, and I don't want to end up with limiting equipment once I know what I'm doing.

Sorry for the long post; I know I'm rambling. If you guys could offer your thoughts on the powered speakers vs. passive speakers + amp, I'd appreciate it. I know there are tons of threads on the subject already (and I've read a LOT of them), but I haven't seen many people that were considering such different options (powered cheap Mackie's vs. building a BFM cab), so that seems like a horse of a different color, so to speak.
 
#30
Tried out the ZED 14 yesterday with most of the group. Although I love the features and such, I think I may be sending it back soon - if the full group had been there, I would have been out of XLR channels. I really should have taken the advice earlier and gotten a 16 channel board. Six XLRs just aren't enough for us.
 
#31
I'm in a 5 piece and have the Yamaha MG166CX mixer....brilliant! We use it with active speakers: Mackie SRM450's and you will definitely need stage monitors.
as my friend says....get other instruments to buy their own amps and use it purely for vocals. Mackies are full range but you will still need subs to get a decent sound if you put drums and bass through it, the which are heavy and damn expensive!
 
#32
JumboFriendly I didn't see your thread soon enough.

Don't any places around you rent PA gear? Where we live a chain called Long & McQuade offers rental gear for nearly any set-up.

I see you have already bought a mixer. No problem. Now rather than blow any more dough on gear that may or may not work for you in a few months try renting what you need to fill out the venue you are playing.

When we started we just had a mixer and rented some powered speakers to use for both fronts and monitors. Did the job fine. Then I found a deal on some Mackie SRM 450's and bought those. Now they are both our rehearsal and stage monitors.

I got lucky last year and there was some gear at a music auction that nobody else seemed too interested in bidding on. I got a Mackie 4000w (@2ohm - we run 8ohm so it "only" pushes 1000W) power amp and 2 EAW 15" 500W front speakers for a really good price. So from then on we only needed to rent a sub. Last year there was a good deal on new powered subs so I bought one of them for us too. Now we have a PA that handles small to medium sized bar venues no problem and it all fits in the back of my truck with the cover closed.

My point is start small and wait for deals to come along. Rent what you need. We were renting 200W Powered speakers for $20 for a 2 day rental. How do you beat that?

We only push the vocals through the PA plus we mic the Kick drum, snare and high hat to reinforce those. My bass rig could drown out the works and both guitars have more than enough power. I do dream of a full system with all the gear on stage turned down and running through the PA but that's for the future.
 
#33
As always, I appreciate the replies. I've purchased a mixer, but will be sending it back tomorrow as it's not going to be large enough. I should have known that 6XLRs wouldn't cut it, but I tried adding up in my head what I thought we'd need. At our first practice session with the new gear, I learned I had counted wrong. No problem; I'll send it back and get something larger. I'm glad I went with the Allen & Heath - I like the ZED series a lot. I wish the ZED-14 would have worked for us.

After I get the new mixer in, I'm done buying things for a while. A guitarist has speakers and a power amp that we will use when playing live (obviously I didn't know this when I originally created this thread). I wanted to get the mixer so that we could practice - instead of having powered speakers, or any speakers at all, I got a small headphone amp and I'm running that from the mixer. It's giving me practice mixing sound while allowing us to all hear each other when we're playing - hitting both my goals without costing a fortune.

Now that we'll be set-up to practice with each other, I can sit back and wait for deals on subs and anything else that we'll need. I'm happy with where we're at right now as a (beginning) group. Now, thankfully, it's time to focus on the music!
 
#35
Probably the larger version of the one I'm returning, the Allen & Heath ZED-24. I'm not 100% sure of it, because I've read so many good things about the MixWizard. To buy new, the MW is quite a bit more money, obviously. I'm going to need to do more research, I guess.
 
#36
JumboFriendly said:
After some thought, I've decided to go with a new board. Usually, I try to find local deals in pawn shops. The boards that I've found have all been somewhat beat up, with markers on the channels with "dead" that lead me to wonder if that means they didn't use that channel, or if that channel doesn't work. I don't know much about testing boards, or operating them, so I figured this would be one of the situations that I would be better off with something new, that has a warranty, and a manual to make sure I know how to work it.

I ended up getting the Allen and Heath Zed-14. It should arrive tomorrow. I'm planning to use it for as long as I can, and if I need to upgrade in the future I will look into the MixWiz series. The Zed should last me for quite a while, though. I also like the USB out for recording (podcasting and the like with another project I'm involved with). I think it's a good purchase and I'm very much looking forward to getting it. Thanks again for all the suggestions and help!
Click to expand...

A&H make great boards. It should sound great and last forever if you take care of it. I agree that powered speakers are the wat to go here.. Get USED mackie THUMPS or SRM450's,,,2 to start then add more for monitors. They are easily found under $300 per used, and will sound great. eventually a small powered sub will take the load off the tops for bass, and provide killer support for kickdrum, and bass guitar. Used gear is an excellent value if you stay with the better manufacturers. Good luck.
 
#37
:hiding:
JumboFriendly said:
Probably the larger version of the one I'm returning, the Allen & Heath ZED-24. I'm not 100% sure of it, because I've read so many good things about the MixWizard. To buy new, the MW is quite a bit more money, obviously. I'm going to need to do more research, I guess.
Click to expand...

May I suggest you consider a USED mackie CRX 1604 mixer? They can also be had for around $350, and are bulletproof. I've been using one for 12 years . Built in simple FX, good sound, and not too complicated to run. You can aslo run the sub out of the aux vs the built in sub connector, and have much more control over what goes where.. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. best of luck. .....peace out yo.
 
#38
If you are on a budget CL is your friend. Lots of steals out there for a good price. I will say this, a good mixer should be easy to find on CL. However I will mention although it seems like more at first, in the long run I have become a big fan of active speaker systems for club applications. I am trying to completely phase out all power amps and passive speakers from my PA rigs. Although it seems like more the active speakers are easily the same price or less than the power amp + passive speaker combo. Plus your cableing will be less costly and easier. Plus powered subs come with crossovers built in and can send the hi part of the spectrum to your mains stack.

If you are starting from scratch definitely look towards active speaker systems. The only hassle of them is maybe more extension cords to deal with but other than that...

Ken
 
#39
I don't mind finding just about everything else used, but a mixer I would like to get either mostly new or used from somewhere that I can take it back if I discover it's not working properly. I'm so unfamiliar with them that I won't be able to fully test every feature before I walk out with one, and I don't want someone else's headache. A ton of pawn shops around here have cheapish mixers, but they've got labels on some of the channels that say "dead" and I don't know if that means the channel doesn't work, or if the pervious user just didn't plug anything into that one channel and wanted a note there to remind themselves of it.

I've been doing more research about the ZED vs. the MixWizard. The MW appears to offer invidividual phantom power switches vs. global on the ZED, more AUX sends (6 as opposed to 4), 4-band EQ with 2 mid sweeps vs. 3 and 1 in the ZED, direct outs on each channel, and built-in FX, plus some other small stuff like a lamp socket. I'm pretty sure that's going to be worth the difference in price - it's a lot of added features. To add outboard FX alone to the ZED would just about cover the price difference.

I guess at this point it's just waiting to find another good sale at GC or something. Anyone have any ideas when that will be?
 
#40
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] check out this for a mixer, i use it with the mackie th-15 a's and they work together great and the mixer has built in fx proccesing and a recording interface, it's also quite cheap, in the uk it cost me about £480 so u should really consider it
 

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