Double Bass QSC CB10

[Ben Rolston]

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CB10--qsc-cb10-powered-pa-speaker-with-battery

Pretty cool feature set!

When I’ve tried QSC powered speakers before it’s only been 8” speakers (k8 and cp8) because the 10s and 12s are too heavy (30lbs+). Those 8s sound good except on the E string, the frequency response rolls off too quick in my experience. This one is ~27 pounds and should have more E string heft. The battery feature is take it or leave it for me, though actually being able to leave the battery at home would be sick.

EDIT: oooh the battery is removable

 

[loukash]

It would be interesting to compare it to EV Everse 8 which has become my amp of choice last summer.
The Everse is definitely smaller and lighter, and I can't complain about any lack of low end at all. In fact the oposite: the Everse has e.g. a "Club" mode obviously targeted at DJs but that really adds way too much low end for my upright. So I use it mostly in the "Live" "Kickback" mode which incorporates a discreet HPF.

Also, while having a control app is a good thing, apparently many settings on CB10 are adjustable only via app. I definitely wouldn't want that in a live situation. (The Everse has a small LCD display and a menu which may not be everyone's thing, but every function setting is still adjustable on the device itself. Plus on the app, of course.)

 

[Ben Rolston]

that EV looks great — like what I’d hoped the QSC CP8 would’ve been. The frequency response still has me worried about the E string but maybe the drop off is less steep feeling. I know these things are more complicated than just a number on a page

 

[loukash]

The frequency response still has me worried about the E string but maybe the drop off is less steep feeling.

As I already noted, I can't complain. Especially since I play my DB – and all bass guitars – in D standard.
The only thing I did in the meantime was to replace the Spirocore Weich E string with a Spirocore Mittel, but that was more due to the Weich string being a bit too flappy when tuned down to D, as I tend to pluck rather hard. Sound-wise, the amp did handle it fine.
Other than that, the amazing factor of the Everse is mainly its sound pressure. The bass just cuts through, with almost no EQ necessary apart from selecting the appropriate presets that match the instrument and the location the best. In my case: for DB usually the "Percussion" channel preset and the "Live" and "Kickback" speaker presets, because they seem to include a high pass filter that matches my bass just fine. Of course, eventually there will come a limit when some distortion kicks in. You can't bend the laws of physics endlessly. But it's powerful enough e.g. for rehearsals and small gigs with my blues quartet incl. a drummer.

From the 8" class battery amps, I tested the Everse 8 side by side against Bose S1, JBL One, HK Audio Move and Mackie Showbox. None of them could match it, be it sound-wise or feature-wise. Also some of the "goodies" turned out to be crucial, like phantom power on channel 1, Hi-Z input in channel 2, anti-feedback filter, compressor, multiple stages of EQs, including a global 7-band (!) parametric (!!) EQ, a 5V power output via USB-C to charge phones or power compatible devices, etc. I didn't expect to ever use all of those goodies, but in that half year with the Everse I've already used them all.

For sure though, with a 10" you may get a fuller sound.
Which is also why I think a comparison would help.

But then again, if size and weight is less an issue, there's also the Everse 12 with the same features as the Everse 8 but with a 12" speaker.

 

[Wasnex]

Somewhat challenging to compare specs. I believe they indicate the CB10 plays lower. Per the notes, the QSC specs were measured in full space. The EV specs were measure in both full and half space. AFAIK half space measurements will have higher SPL and more LF extension than full space.

The QSC max SPL is clearly a peak rating. Usually the continuous rating is 6dB lower, but sometimes it's only 3dB lower. I am not certain whether the EV max SPL is peak or continuous, but usually (AFAIK) Max translates to peak. So the QSC may be significantly louder.

CB10

Everse 8

 

[Holdsg]

I have used a QSC K10 for my DB in an emergency situation when I didn't have access to my regular amp.
I have also used a battery-powered Bose S1 for low-volume EUB busking with other acoustic instruments.
I also had one of the PJ Double Fours that I ran with a laptop battery.
Each of these were not awful. But I suppose there are newer things out there (as you suggest) that are less compromised.

 

[bassically_eli]

Somewhat challenging to compare specs. I believe they indicate the CB10 plays lower. Per the notes, the QSC specs were measured in full space. The EV specs were measure in both full and half space. AFAIK half space measurements will have higher SPL and more LF extension than full space.

The QSC max SPL is clearly a peak rating. Usually the continuous rating is 6dB lower, but sometimes it's only 3dB lower. I am not certain whether the EV max SPL is peak or continuous, but usually (AFAIK) Max translates to peak. So the QSC may be significantly louder.

CB10
View attachment 7409685
View attachment 7409689

Everse 8
View attachment 7409694
View attachment 7409695

I didn’t know they were putting out the full space/half space info. I wish I could find that for the CP and K series from QSC, and the Yamaha DBR series as well for that matter.

 

[Neon Scribe]

I've been using a QSC K12.2 with a Realist LifeLine and it sounds great. The K12.2 has a Hi-Z/Line selectable input, and I can plug in the LifeLine directly without a preamp in Hi-Z (1 megohm) mode. The only drawback to this setup is that I have to use the back panel to adjust volume, which is inconvenient. I expect the CB10 would have very similar sound quality, perhaps not as loud, but I can't tell if it has a Hi-Z input. I can't find any reference to it on the QSC website or even in the owner's manual. I guess we should assume that it does not have a Hi-Z input, unless someone knows otherwise. Probably most of us use some kind of preamp with a piezo pickup anyway, but if we're away from AC power that's also one more battery that needs attention. I don't think the CB10 has 48V phantom power either, which some preamps can use. The CB10 does have a Bluetooth-based app that gives full remote access to the back panel controls, which is nice.

Compared to the CB10, the EVERSE 12 is a big jump in price ($800USD to $1200USD) and a small-ish jump in weight (27lbs to 31 lbs), but appears to have a better feature set. The proof is in the sound, though.

I'm looking forward to reviews from real users.

 

[loukash]

I can't tell if it has a Hi-Z input. I can't find any reference to it on the QSC website or even in the owner's manual.

Neither could I.
Also no phantom power or a general "power output".
For my use, that all would be a dealbreaker.

That's the benefit of the Everse, that it has all this. Phantom power means that I can for example plug the Tech21 QStrip DI into channel 1 and that gives me a second Hi-Z input right away – and then some, with an extra analog parametric EQ at hand. All powered by the Everse battery.

Another external input option I've been already using is the small 4-channel audio interface Zoom AMS-44. All it needs is a USB-C cable to draw 5V from the Everse USB-C power output, and then it multiplies one of my Everse input channels into four, also adding another Hi-Z. Or vice versa, the AMS-44 connected to the Everse XLR output will turn it into a two-channel headphone amp. Or a 4-channel recording interface: I already did some live recordings with GarageBand on my iPhone. The AMS-44 is self-contained and operates without ever being connected to a computer.
So all these small extras on the Everse allow for astounding modularity by being able to hook up small external devices that I already have anyway.
We've been using it for busking the whole summer, also a couple of small party gigs and a wedding, running not just my upright bass through it but also all vocals via the aforementioned AMS-44 as a mic "pre-amp/pre-mixer". And all transport done by bikes (with trailers) or public transport…

 

[Neon Scribe]

Double bass amplification is obviously not the main purpose for these speakers. We're just lucky that there's enough overlap between DJ/PA needs and our needs. DJs need high volume and midbass thump. We need, well, most of us need some volume but not as much, and we need, or at least want, linear frequency response down into the 40-50 Hz range. It would be nice if speaker manufacturers were required to release frequency response graphs. You don't see them very often because they usually look something like the Rocky Mountains and then drop drastically somewhere between 50 and 60 Hz. We're going to depend on some brave pioneers purchasing these speakers and using them as bass amps and giving us their honest assessment. I'm very happy with the QSC K12.2, but I don't own it and I'm only using it in a rehearsal studio. I still use my AI Coda for gigs.

 

[loukash]

It would be nice if speaker manufacturers were required to release frequency response graphs.

Voilà:

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/EVERSE8_8__EDS_en.pdf

 

[loukash]

Also, reviews – and "reviews" – are already coming in daily:

https://youtube.com/results?search_query=QSC+CB10

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

As long as we don’t start using the dreaded “FRFR” acronym. That’s basically like saying this speaker is like tort or carrots. Please, for the love of God, let’s not go there.

 

[Neon Scribe]

Voilà:

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/EVERSE8_8__EDS_en.pdf

Here's the EVERSE 12:

https://products.electrovoice.com/download/980025

They use different scales, but it looks like the 8 and the 12 frequency response graphs were generated under the same conditions. The steep decline on the 8 starts around 60 Hz, while the steep decline on the 12 starts around 52 Hz. The CB10 lists -6 dB at 51 Hz. Eyeballing the graphs, I would guess the -6 dB for the EVERSE 8 around 55 Hz and the EVERSE 12 around 48 Hz, but that's just me taking a stab at it.

 

[Neon Scribe]

As long as we don’t start using the dreaded “FRFR” acronym. That’s basically like saying this speaker is like tort or carrots. Please, for the love of God, let’s not go there.

It is one of those labels that badly overpromises, but it has been adopted, mostly in the context of guitar amplification, where the "FRFR" box is not meant to have a sound of its own, with all the coloration coming from the gadgets inserted between the guitar and the amplifier. I think it's not too far from what used to be called "Hi-Fi", which never really meant much either. Of course, we have "MBOL", which is yet another unattainable ideal.

 

[loukash]

As long as we don’t start using the dreaded “FRFR” acronym. That’s basically like saying this speaker is like tort or carrots.

The Everse has a "FRFR" mode. I haven't used it yet, for an upright there's definitely no need.
But it could be useful for electric guitar, as I don't have a guitar amp anymore and play through a HX Stomp into whatever power amp I find. I'll test it when I find a reason to play the electric…

The steep decline on the 8 starts around 60 Hz

… and this works for me because that's about where I would set a HPF anyway.
In one of the rehearsal rooms, I play through an active 12" Yamaha PA box, using an old Boss GE-10 EQ as a preamp. There I'm pulling 31 Hz all the way down and 63 Hz to about +2 or +3 dB, but not more, otherwise it will get too boomy.

Anyway, after watching some of those early reviews, the CB10 will be obviously louder than the Everse 8.
Whether it really works well for bass, is a different question. Looking at the app manual, apart from presets there's just a fixed 3-band EQ per channel. So "surgical tweaking" like on the Everse with its 7-band para-EQ is not possible, at least not with this first firmware version.

 

[Wasnex]

but it has been adopted, mostly in the context of guitar amplification, where the "FRFR" box is not meant to have a sound of its own,

Yes AFAIK FRFR is mostly a marketing term for guitar.

IMHO the confusion from FRFR is because Full Range for guitar is not Full Range for Bass. Partly because of this, many so-called FRFR cabs cave prematurely when pushed with bass. Part of the problem is overly optimistic expectations that result from a combination of hyped specs and customer ignorance.

People tend to focus on power claims. Sorry but a $300 1x8 FRFR cab with claimed 2000W of power is not going to be capable of pants-flapping performance with bass. The 2000W is a peak rating of the both the woofer and tweeter amp in the cab. The company claims 650W RMS for the woofer and 350W RMS for the tweeter, which I believe is still misleading. If you think an 8" woofer can handle 650W I have a bridge to sell you. The drivers are digitally limited to whatever the drivers can safely handle.

Concert level FRFR for bass can be done, but it is actually quite challenging to achieve, very expensive, and bigger/heavier than most of us are willing to deal with.

 

[Neon Scribe]

These products are designed for the professional market, so we expect them to be rugged enough to bounce around in the back of a van, but it's probably worth looking at the "party speaker" options, consumer-focused speakers mainly intended for Bluetooth playback of dance music at high volume. They might not be not up to the rigors of gigging, but they should have similar audio performance. Plus they have awesome built-in light shows, which are really going to class up your solo on "Stella by Starlight". The JBL PartyBox 720 is battery powered, weighs 68 pounds with built-in casters, and claims bass response down to 30 Hz (without any rolloff indication however).