Quality Control - USA basses

[Iridescentone]

EBMM oil / wax finish - needs to be re-waxed to avoid the dark spots on the maple boards. It doesnt take long to wear through the original finish if it is not kept up. I wax mine during every string changes.

Thank you, that's what it is...."oil/wax". It must be the "wax" aspect that I don't appreciate. I guess I fail to see an advantage to such a finish. Seems like a solution looking for a problem. I have other basses with oil finished necks, but they don't require special routine maintenance.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

1) Guitar center is not known for how well they take care of their showroom instruments
2) Fender is a 100% mass-production outfit - so some QA issues do not shock me - at all. That's why you should play several and buy the one that is the nicest (play before you pay!!!)
3) The G&L issue does rather shock me - they usually have top-notch QA.

 

[ale29]

Thank you, that's what it is...."oil/wax". It must be the "wax" aspect that I don't appreciate. I guess I fail to see an advantage to such a finish. Seems like a solution looking for a problem. I have other basses with oil finished necks, but they don't require special routine maintenance.

That neck finish is the thing I miss the most (actually, the only one) since I've sold my MM Stingray.
I'd take that feeling over a clean looking neck any day of the week.

 

[el_Bajo_Verde]

I just bought a Schecter (made in Korea) that was sitting in my GC for over a year. There is no fret sprout. I am in the upper Midwest and I have never seen a Schecter that has fret sprout.

What are they doing differently?

 

[andruca]

My 3 unfinished neck Musicmans haven't developed any fret sprout. I live in Madrid, where humidity rarely exceeds 50%, so if it hasn't developed so far I frankly don't see it happening ever.

Now regarding quality, well, fret sprout has in fact some relation with build quality in the end, properly dried wood being one of the first steps for proper instrument construction. Regarding G&L I think they're way more conscious as to QC than Fender which IME sucks. I still way prefer EBMM to those, by far.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

I've never noticed inherent quality issues on basses at the GC I go to, and I live in Northern Indiana. The set ups are generally poor, but no fret spout or chronic neck issues that I can spot. I've bought one bass from there and it was very nice, set up and all that was on point.

However, like someone else mentioned all of their higher end basses usually end up parked on the wall up near the top for several years. They have an American Standard Jazz that's been up there listed in 'new' condition since early 2015. It's hardly in new condition anymore from years of people play testing it and they are still asking full new price for it. I certainly wouldn't pay that price for it anymore.

 

[mdogs]

Nice job people with the twofer...Fender and GC bashing in the same thread...

 

[Spidey2112]

I've never noticed inherent quality issues on basses at the GC I go to, and I live in Northern Indiana. The set ups are generally poor, but no fret spout or chronic neck issues that I can spot. I've bought one bass from there and it was very nice, set up and all that was on point.

However, like someone else mentioned all of their higher end basses usually end up parked on the wall up near the top for several years. They have an American Standard Jazz that's been up there listed in 'new' condition since early 2015. It's hardly in new condition anymore from years of people play testing it and they are still asking full new price for it. I certainly wouldn't pay that price for it anymore.

Wolfie, everything is negotiable... If it'll get me an extra 15% off, I'll speak badly of the manager's shoes...

 

[BassLover668]

Hahahah if the post says SQUIER im sure 90% of the post ,says "yeah is a crap", but with MIA stuff thats not happen.

 

[TMARK]

QC affects all brands. My experience:

Perfect: 2011 MIA Jazz, 1998 62 reissue Jazz, 2012 63 P, Spector USA NS2, 1993 Warwick Thumb, 2003 Warwick Thumb 5, Stingray HH, Sterling HH, 2015 RIC 4003, 2010 G&L M2000, 2016 Elite Jazz, Sadowsky Metro, 2008 CS Jazz, classic Ray.

Not Perfect: 2014 Saber (ski jump, nut cut poorly), 1995 Ray Fretless dead spot (real bad) no volume on the G string, needed a shim to be playable as a fretless, 2010 CS Jazz (ski jump).

 

[morgan138]

Ultimately, country of origin is irrelevant. The company/manufacturer is a far more significant factor in this respect.

Yeah, I think "USA made" gets kind of misunderstood. It's not that the US is magically better at making instruments, it's that there was a time when building instruments in the States was an indicator that a manufacturer was serious about quality, and not trying to cut corners. Peavey was a great example of this, their 80s/early 90s USA instruments are solid but weren't meant to be super fancy or anything.

I think if anything in 2017 it's more like, companies try to cover a few different price points with a "USA made" line at the top of the pyramid. Whether they're also trying to make those instruments the best they can, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

EDIT: anyhow, I'm not an expert bass hustler by any stretch, but my intuitive sense is that "USA made" starts mattering less and less as you move out of the 1990s.

 

[Wolfenstein666]

Wolfie, everything is negotiable... If it'll get me an extra 15% off, I'll speak badly of the manager's shoes...

Oh yeah, for sure it's negotiable. I'm not saying I wouldn't consider it, but no way would I let someone try to sell me 'new' bass at full price if its clearly not new.

 

[Spidey2112]

Yeah, I think "USA made" gets kind of misunderstood. It's not that the US is magically better at making instruments, it's that there was a time when building instruments in the States was an indicator that a manufacturer was serious about quality, and not trying to cut corners. Peavey was a great example of this, their 80s/early 90s USA instruments are solid but weren't meant to be super fancy or anything.

I think if anything in 2017 it's more like, companies try to cover a few different price points with a "USA made" line at the top of the pyramid. Whether they're also trying to make those instruments the best they can, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

EDIT: anyhow, I'm not an expert bass hustler by any stretch, but my intuitive sense is that "USA made" starts mattering less and less as you move out of the 1990s.

Well, I should be OK, then, as I haven't left the '80s...

 

[Loki_the_2nd]

My experience with Fender P-basses has show me that USA, Japan and Mexico all produce good and bad basses. When I was younger I spent a lot of money to get an American P-bass, and I thought it had to be the best quality bass there was. One night I was at a buddy's place and was jamming on a jazz, it felt fantastic and sounded great, which made me believe it was definitely an American. When I checked, to my surprise it was Mexican. I started experimenting with different countries afterwards and noticed that testing out products is more important then relying on their country of origin.

 

[jd56hawk]

$12...need I say more?

 

[Ken J]

I've learned a few things over the years about fret sprout and why it happens to some basses, but not all basses. Let's see if others share some of my my opinions and theories...

1) It's seasonal. The problem mostly occurs during the winter months, especially in regions where "winter" means furnaces are running on/off all day, every day.
2) It's not caused by changes in temperature, but by drastic changes in humidity.
3) It's a gradual process, as wood slowly loses moisture during extended dry periods, then lets moisture back in during more humid times.
4) It's a recurring cycle of wood expansion/contraction which may or may not diminish over time.
5) Maple boards seem to be affected by humidity changes much more than rosewood boards. Which seems counter-intuitive as maple boards are usually finished, "sealing" the wood, while rosewood boards are left unfinished. Evidently rosewood contains natural oils and resins that resist moisture flow?
6) The best time to address a fret sprout issue is when the wood is at it's most contacted point, and the frets are their most exposed point.

What mystifies me is how a poly sealed fretboard can allow moisture to flow in and out every year. Does moisture permeate the finish, or sneak in under the frets?

It's called hydronic pressure. This is the migration of water molecules to a less humid atmosphere
Water molecules will pass through just about anything given time

 

[Runlikegregg]

If the basses are suffering from "fret sprout" due to not being kept in a proper environment, it's not necessarily the manufacturer's fault, sounds like another Guitar Center fail to me. They take such lousy care of their display instruments that I'm surprised manufacturers haven't started pulling their brands. Bad maintenance by GC reflects negatively on the manufacturer, as seen here.

More times than not the instruments are completely jacked up in every Guitar Center I've ever been in. Usually they are down right broken. I find it amazing. Does anyon actually buy instruments from there?

 

[Iridescentone]

It's called hydronic pressure. This is the migration of water molecules to a less humid atmosphere
Water molecules will pass through just about anything given time

Excellent info, thanks.

 

[Iridescentone]

My experience with Fender P-basses has show me that USA, Japan and Mexico all produce good and bad basses. When I was younger I spent a lot of money to get an American P-bass, and I thought it had to be the best quality bass there was. One night I was at a buddy's place and was jamming on a jazz, it felt fantastic and sounded great, which made me believe it was definitely an American. When I checked, to my surprise it was Mexican. I started experimenting with different countries afterwards and noticed that testing out products is more important then relying on their country of origin.

In an ideal world (as opposed to the world most of us actually live in), country of manufacturing origin shouldn't matter in terms of quality, but can often be an indicator of what to expect in terms of materials, features and attention to detail. Which to many of us, equals "quality". Is it important or worth paying extra for? You decide.

To wit; Cort, a large guitar manufacturer presently located in Indonesia, builds guitars for many different companies according to said companys' specifications. Cort and some Korean makers have the capacity, skills, and access to resources to build everything from cheap entry level guitars to sophisticated high end guitars. It all depends on what their clients are willing to pay for. Many companies reserve the building of their "premium" line of instruments to be made in their home countries, while still being able to offer more affordable guitars by employing off-shore factories.

The trade off is usually (but not always) lower grade hardware, electronics, fewer options, and in some cases a lower grade of woods. Most guitar manufacturers from giants like Fender, to smaller production outfits like G&L, EBMM, to high end builders like Sadowsky, Brubaker, Lakland and others, use the same strategy. Namely, a lower priced import line, similar to their premier offerings, but with some quality or feature trade offs.

Does this mean that an Indonesian-made Lakland Skyline or a Mexican-made Fender are not perfectly serviceable guitars? Of course not. Does it mean the same quality level of parts and materials are found on both versions? No. Why would it? It's just how The System works.

OTOH, there are ways to "beat the system" if you know your gear, and know exactly what your preferences are. Yes, there are sleeper deals out there just waiting to be discovered. Cheers.

 

[bholder]

More times than not the instruments are completely jacked up in every Guitar Center I've ever been in. Usually they are down right broken. I find it amazing. Does anyon actually buy instruments from there?

I've never bought from the local store and I doubt I ever would, but I did use their used gear site to buy my left MIM jazz (converted to righty). Nice bass for a decent price, maybe I got lucky. The ones that have been hanging in the stores for long times are generally in terrible condition, ought to be sold as used / damaged floor samples, in my opinion. The local store has the expensive acoustics in a humidified room, but all of the basses and electrics are out in the "big box" warehouse part which is terrible in terms of climate control and humidity.