Quality Control - USA basses

[BobKos]

Fret sprout can happen to any instrument. Especially neglected instruments. I bought an Alembic Epic with an ebony board. It had fret sprout. No big deal. Took it to a tech and had them knocked down. Wonderful bass.

I doubt either of the instruments in the OP left their respective factories with fret sprout.

 

[blindrabbit]

EBMM does a good enough job, but....

"Absolutely flawless"? Perhaps if you're willing to overlook that EBMM likes to use the same size pickups (front and rear) for their dual-pickup basses, resulting in strings glaringly not lining up properly to pole pieces. Or that they consistently seem to seek out the heaviest woods on the wholesale market for their instruments, resulting in a sub-nine pound bass being a fluke. These are simply production cost cutting strategies.

And what's with their penchant for what appear to be "unfinished" necks? I have a lo-mileage one here that appears to be one of their naked necks. It's already showing a bit discoloring on the maple board, despite its having been rarely played. How long does it take long before the fretboard becomes filthy? Who wants all manner of human DNA gunk on their gear? Can it even be cleaned? Gross.

I realize that the term "boutique quality" is somewhat subjective, but by my standards that descriptor is a stretch for EBMM. Considering how much EBMM basses retail for, I expect a better effort for my hard earned money. To each their own, but I don't like paying extra for gear because of the name on the headstock. That goes for any name on a headstock.

Different experiences and different opinions, I guess. I absolutely do find EBMM to be flawless, and I also don't think that wood weight is a QC issue (this is coming from someone who won't play a bass over 8 lbs too).

The "unfinished" necks are oil finished, and I'll take one of those any day over a crummy poly finished neck.

EBMM basses are priced appropriately, IMO/IME. They are below boutique, as they should be, but fantastic quality for the price, and I don't feel with them as though I'm paying for the name on the headstock. I wouldn't pay more than $500-600 or so for any Fender, especially not anything MIA, and to me *those* are the basses where you pay for the name on the headstock.

Again, these experiences may not match up to yours, but they are mine, and I'll stand by them.

 

[Andyman001]

EBMM does a good enough job, but....

"Absolutely flawless"? Perhaps if you're willing to overlook that EBMM likes to use the same size pickups (front and rear) for their dual-pickup basses, resulting in strings glaringly not lining up properly to pole pieces. Or that they consistently seem to seek out the heaviest woods on the wholesale market for their instruments, resulting in a sub-nine pound bass being a fluke. These are simply production cost cutting strategies.

And what's with their penchant for what appear to be "unfinished" necks? I have a lo-mileage one here that appears to be one of their naked necks. It's already showing a bit discoloring on the maple board, despite its having been rarely played. How long does it take long before the fretboard becomes filthy? Who wants all manner of human DNA gunk on their gear? Can it even be cleaned? Gross.

I realize that the term "boutique quality" is somewhat subjective, but by my standards that descriptor is a stretch for EBMM. Considering how much EBMM basses retail for, I expect a better effort for my hard earned money. To each their own, but I don't like paying extra for gear because of the name on the headstock. That goes for any name on a headstock.

EBMM oil / wax finish - needs to be re-waxed to avoid the dark spots on the maple boards. It doesnt take long to wear through the original finish if it is not kept up. I wax mine during every string changes.

 

[mpdd]

i haven't had any issues with new g&l stuff, but the 80s and 90s stuff can need some tlc to get the neck how you want it

 

[Spidey2112]

Do you really want Johnny Boogerhunter at GC taking a file to your +$1k bass?

Wait a sec... that's the name of MY guy at MY GC...

 

[craigie]

Do you really want Johnny Boogerhunter at GC taking a file to your +$1k bass?

That says it all about what kind of shop GC is. I bought a used fender American Standard from long and mcquade and the tech there did an exceptional job. I also brought an American FSR in for a setup since the truss rod seemed a bit stiff and he also did a bunch of fret work on his own time basically and did a fantastic job. Just a great shop.

 

[JoeWPgh]

I acquired a practically new Lakland Skyline J-sonic 5er, late this past November. Out of the box, the fretwork was flawless. Fast forward 2 months and the fret sprout was horrid! So it's obviously not how the bass left the factory. I took a couple of my Stew-Mac files to it, and now all is good. But again, it's obviously not how the bass left the factory

 

[okcrum]

You'd probably be shocked if you walked into most stores with a humidity meter. I imagine the acoustic instruments do worse.

 

[Hounddog409]

I was looking at 2 American made basses at my local Guitar Center. One was a American Standard P Bass, the other a G&L LB 100. Both around $1300. I haven't shopped a higher-end bass for a while. Raising a family has kept me squarely in the mexi-pbass category.

But I have to say, I was really surprised when I was examining these basses. Both basses suffered from sharp fret ends. The G&L also had a small crack at the fretboard dot-hole on the 12th fret, and glue was on the fretboard immediately next to the tops and bottom of frets 2 - 6.

I would imagine these basses have been there for a while. So perhaps the necks have shrunk, revealing the fret ends. And maybe the fretboard has dried, so as to allow cracks near the dot holes.

In any case, am I missing something here? I guess when I'm looking at a $1300 american-made bass I'm expecting something near flawless. At the very least, both of these basses would need the fret ends cleaned up. But is this typical of what we are seeing from American basses? Frankly, my mexican tele and mexican pbass didn't have these kinds of issues.

Would love to hear your experience. Let me know if there are other posts I should be checking (I didn't find any by searching)

thanks

my 2016 Ric 4003s was flawless. Also came close to purchasing a AM ST P that was also flawless.

 

[navijaz]

I don't mean any disrespect but I think generally speaking MIA is not such a badge of quality as it is made out to be by a lot of Americans. Unless we're talking about Sadowsky or something in that range, of course. The mass-produced stuff coming out of factories like Fender's is certainly not bad, has quality parts on it and is all around OK but does usually not compare too favorably with a lot (not all) of what is coming from "overseas", especially considering the price.

In respect to the OP, I think you have to expect flaws and QC issues from an American Standard. You still need to cherry-pick the batch and then do some work that really should have been done at the factory. If you know that and are willing to pay the somewhat highish price, you can get a nice instrument with very good resale value.

 

[JGbassman]

I live in the upper Midwest, and this time of year it gets really dry. In fact I boil a pan of water every now and then just to get some humidity back in the air in my apartment. I've had a few fenders over the years that developed the burrs, one was a maple board MIJ p bass, the other was my favorite mim p bass (96) that is enjoying its first northern winter, coming from Arizona. A 20 dollar fret edge dressing tool from stew Mac and an hour of my time was all that was needed to get it feeling better. I've never experienced this with my 2011 mia jazz, or any of my other basses that I can recall. Seems it was just the two fenders in my case. Regardless, it didn't take much to tweak them back into shape, and hopefully that will be the end of it. Working on basses is fun and calming for me, and very satisfying when I get them where I want them to be. So little tweaks aren't that big of a deal for me. Usually once is all it takes to get the bass filed down.

i did play a SUB in an upper Midwest GC that was really bad with the fret ends, to the point it was painful to play once. It needed a little love to get it in shape, but then again, they weren't asking a lot for it.

 

[Gizmot]

I bet both of those basses were fine when they left their factories (I'm especially confident that the G&L was). When instruments are new, they're more susceptible to extremes in humidity than they are after the wood has had a chance to age and settle in a bit. I would ask them to put those basses in their acoustic guitar room for a couple of days and see if it makes a difference.

 

[PortlandBass77]

If the basses are suffering from "fret sprout" due to not being kept in a proper environment, it's not necessarily the manufacturer's fault, sounds like another Guitar Center fail to me. They take such lousy care of their display instruments that I'm surprised manufacturers haven't started pulling their brands. Bad maintenance by GC reflects negatively on the manufacturer, as seen here.

I don't think that's accurate. I don't keep my basses in as good of an environment as the GC's I've been to do, and none of my basses have either of those problems. I think the OP has a case of of 2 poor examples that have been sitting for a while as no one will buy them.

 

[dxb]

I'm curious to know how old those basses were. Like others have said, higher priced items might sit around longer, and G&L more so than Fender since its not as popular of a brand.

 

[Hopkins]

I must be the only guy that's never had fret sprout on basses with rosewood and pau ferro. Now, maple and ebony....

I've never had fret sprout on any bass, but I live in a very humid climate

 

[Iridescentone]

In respect to the OP, I think you have to expect flaws and QC issues from an American Standard. You still need to cherry-pick the batch and then do some work that really should have been done at the factory. If you know that and are willing to pay the somewhat highish price, you can get a nice instrument with very good resale value.

What flaws are you referring to? Care to cite specific examples? In the same sentence you referenced the OP, who says he played a Fender and a G&L in a GC store, both of which have a case of fret sprout, a common issue during winter that can happen to guitars at all price levels. Everyone knows that even the least expensive guitars don't leave the factory with their frets sticking out, yet you're repeating the false narrative that Fenders do, and that buyers need to "do some work that really should have been done at the factory".

It sounds like maybe you haven't read many of the posts in this thread, which explain the nature of the issue being discussed, and that it can occur on guitars at every quality/price level, depending on environmental conditions. It doesn't matter if a guitar is made in the USA, Istanbul, or Pago Pago. If it's made of wood it's likely going to be susceptible to drastic changes in humidity.

 

[Iridescentone]

Different experiences and different opinions, I guess. I absolutely do find EBMM to be flawless, and I also don't think that wood weight is a QC issue (this is coming from someone who won't play a bass over 8 lbs too).

The "unfinished" necks are oil finished, and I'll take one of those any day over a crummy poly finished neck.

EBMM basses are priced appropriately, IMO/IME. They are below boutique, as they should be, but fantastic quality for the price, and I don't feel with them as though I'm paying for the name on the headstock. I wouldn't pay more than $500-600 or so for any Fender, especially not anything MIA, and to me *those* are the basses where you pay for the name on the headstock.

Again, these experiences may not match up to yours, but they are mine, and I'll stand by them.

Definitely different experiences, and obviously differing ideas of what the word "boutique" means. Be that as it may, are you claiming your EBMM weighs 8lbs, or less? If so, you've stumbled into a rare bird indeed. It's pretty much common knowledge that EBMM basses typically run heavier then their competitors. Or maybe you might want to have your shipping scale calibrated? (if you're even using one, that is)

 

[navijaz]

What flaws are you referring to? Care to cite specific examples? In the same sentence you referenced the OP, who says he played a Fender and a G&L in a GC store, both of which have a case of fret sprout, a common issue during winter that can happen to guitars at all price levels. Everyone knows that even the least expensive guitars don't leave the factory with their frets sticking out, yet you're repeating the false narrative that Fenders do, and that buyers need to "do some work that really should have been done at the factory".

It sounds like maybe you haven't read many of the posts in this thread, which explain the nature of the issue being discussed, and that it can occur on guitars at every quality/price level, depending on environmental conditions. It doesn't matter if a guitar is made in the USA, Istanbul, or Pago Pago. If it's made of wood it's likely going to be susceptible to drastic changes in humidity.

I read all of the posts, including the OP which maybe you have not read. Fret sprout was ONE of the things he mentioned. Let me quote:

The G&L also had a small crack at the fretboard dot-hole on the 12th fret, and glue was on the fretboard immediately next to the tops and bottom of frets 2 - 6.

In any case, am I missing something here? I guess when I'm looking at a $1300 american-made bass I'm expecting something near flawless. [...] But is this typical of what we are seeing from American basses? Frankly, my mexican tele and mexican pbass didn't have these kinds of issues. Would love to hear your experience.

Glue on the fretboard is clearly a QC issue that should have been taken care of at the factory, don't you agree? I have personally never seen a cracked rosewood fretboard, although it might have happened at the shop

Since the OP asked for experiences on whether these things have to expected, I would have to say yes. Keep your eyes open.

Other common issues that I think should usually have been taken care of: I have yet to find an American Standard that had a good fretjob or set-up, a lot of them have so-so neck pockets, non-functional shielding and so on and so on. I am not perpetuating false narratives. My last American Standard came custom-ordered directly from the factory with a ski-jump and wonky meck and a set-up that was roughly twice as high as the "factory specs". Go figure.

 

[Iridescentone]

You'd probably be shocked if you walked into most stores with a humidity meter. I imagine the acoustic instruments do worse.

You know it.

High end stores with expensive acoustic guitars usually keep them in an environmentally (read; humidity) controlled display room.....for good reason.

 

[Iridescentone]

I read all of the posts, including the OP which maybe you have not read. Fret sprout was ONE of the things he mentioned. Let me quote:



Glue on the fretboard is clearly a QC issue that should have been taken care of at the factory, don't you agree? I have personally never seen a cracked rosewood fretboard, although it might have happened at the shop

Since the OP asked for experiences on whether these things have to expected, I would have to say yes. Keep your eyes open.

Other common issues that I think should usually have been taken care of: I have yet to find an American Standard that had a good fretjob or set-up, a lot of them have so-so neck pockets, non-functional shielding and so on and so on. I am not perpetuating false narratives. My last American Standard came custom-ordered directly from the factory with a ski-jump and wonky meck and a set-up that was roughly twice as high as the "factory specs". Go figure.

I'd agree that "glue on the fretboard" of a brand new G&L would be a QC issue. But....was it glue?...or something else?...or nothing? We don't know without seeing for ourselves. What we definitely do know is that anything hanging on the wall at a Guitar Center store is highly suspect, and virtually anything may have happened to that bass at any point during its journey to GC. Not to mention what might have happened to it during its stay at GC, however long that may have been. There is no weirdness that would be beyond belief concerning GC.

I don't doubt that you got a bad neck on a new Fender. Just because it's never happened to me with any of the many Fenders I've owned, doesn't mean it can't happen. Stuff does happen....Fender, G&L. Lakland, and even on more expensive basses, from highly regarded builders. Just last year I bought a minty used USA Brubaker jazz with a totally frozen truss rod. I can't imagine where or how it got that way, but there you have it. I don't think these are "common" issues. I think they're generally overstated on Talkbass.