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Queensryche's Empire and the Spector NS2

#21
VeryTallBassist said:
TBer @AgingEngineer makes a very highly regarded Haz clone (LHZpreamps.com) and a pedal version of it called HAZLamps. Combined with EMG reverse P and J (even the soapbar versions for 5 strings) in the right locations, it's easy to nail the sound.
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How much (if any) does the "PJ in 2 EMG soapbars" tone of 5-string NS2s differ from the 4 string ones in conventional shapes?

For instance, Bartolini P soapbars are around 32 mm tall, too narrow to accomodate the squat split P in a single housing and I guess their split soapbars are more akin to a split J bobbin than a true P pickup. EMGs are taller, but I don't think you can fully fit a split P in there. How much that can be controlled by other parameters tone-wise I actually don't know. What's more, even two identically shaped pickups can sound rather different, so there you go...
 
#23
EmaTheMirror said:
How much (if any) does the "PJ in 2 EMG soapbars" tone of 5-string NS2s differ from the 4 string ones in conventional shapes?

For instance, Bartolini P soapbars are around 32 mm tall, too narrow to accomodate the squat split P in a single housing and I guess their split soapbars are more akin to a split J bobbin than a true P pickup. EMGs are taller, but I don't think you can fully fit a split P in there. How much that can be controlled by other parameters tone-wise I actually don't know. What's more, even two identically shaped pickups can sound rather different, so there you go...
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I think it's pretty close. This one has a 40P5X and 40DCX, not even a J.

Mindcrime cover
 
#24
I've been a Queensryche fan since I was a teenager. That bass tone blew my mind, and in a way I chased it for years. From the research I've done, the one thing I have read over and over was the peculiar way in which Eddie liked to mic his cabinet when recording. It contradicts what others have said in this thread about the GK amps. All I ever saw him playing back then was an Ampeg SVT, and in several interviews I read that they left the cabinet inside the road case with the lid about half way open then mic'ed it up. This may not be correct, and if it is I'm sure they had multiple signals going into the board, but it has been repeated a lot over the years.
 
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#25
SC Bassboy said:
I've been a Queensryche fan since I was a teenager. That bass tone blew my mind, and in a way I chased it for years. From the research I've done, the one thing I have read over and over was the peculiar way in which Eddie liked to mic his cabinet when recording. It contradicts what others have said in this thread about the GK amps. All I ever saw him playing back then was an Ampeg SVT, and in several interviews I read that they left the cabinet inside the road case with the lid about half way open then mic'ed it up. This may not be correct, and if it is I'm sure they had multiple signals going into the board, but it has been repeated a lot over the years.
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Interesting. Might be that the short reverb tail you hear is the actual, true by-product of peculiar mic and cab placements if that's correct.

TBT, that's the way Albini captured ambience too at times if I'm correct. The reverb in U2's The Unforgettable Fire is mostly Eno capturing that hollow hall in the castle IIRC.
 
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#26
Wicked G said:
I had heard that as well and another famous musician saying it was true. But yeah who really knows other than Eddie Jackson.
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We all know and love the P bass, but Eddie's sound on those records is the quintessential Spector sound that makes us all want an NS-2, or miss the one we sold because we didn't get on with the ergonomics.

I've never heard a P sound like that.
 
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#28
EmaTheMirror said:


It's been ages since I last listened to the band and this album. However, I had a listen to Mindcrime and Empire a few days ago since I was "YouTube-hopping" for Spector videos and stuff.

It looks like it's well documented that E. J. used a couple of NS-2s to track the parts,a black one in standard tuning and a white one in drop D (eg: Della Brown). I assume both reverse-P + J, EMGs, 4 string, HAZ preamps, made in the mid to late 80s. At times, I've seen this record referred to as the "quintessential Spector tone" from the days, sort of.

I was wondering if someone here has more info about the rig and what's more. Was it tracked with just the reverse P full on? I'm asking that because if I listen to the isolated bass, I'd say I could get rather close with my Fender P with low action, pick or hard plucking around the front pickup area, a bit of chorus and reverb, going through a SansAmp style preamp breaking up. I haven't A/B it yet anyway, so my assumption might be a bit off. It's just that it's not a tone where you clearly say "it can only be a Stingray/whatever...", I hear a split P tone, or in the ballpark, if I had to guess without knowing.

Does anyone know how he got that drive? Mic'd SVT amps? I don't think SansAmps and Barta's boxes were really around in 89.
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If I remember correctly, the overdrive is coming from a cranked SVT into an isolation cab. I believe the GK800RB's were used for live use with his McCauley 2x15" cabinets. Paul Northfield and James "Jimbo" Barton were engineers on that album. Both engineered for Rush. Eddie has said in interviews that he generally has the engineer get his "sound" and isn't much of a gearhead.

I'm not sure if this helps? I was a huge Queensryche fan back in the day. I saw the Empire Tour live where they played Operation Mindcrime in it's entirety. Great stuff!

Brent
 
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#29
BrentSimons said:
I was a huge Queensryche fan back in the day. I saw the Empire Tour live where they played Operation Mindcrime in it's entirety. Great stuff!
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Me too! Suicidal Tendencies opened so we got to see Robert Trujillo as well.

I was at the Richmond Coliseum in Virginia and I was shocked that the place was only like half full. Even Geoff commented "We are small in number but mighty in spirit, yes?" Indeed. The show was a blast. Hearing all of Mindcrime was obviously the main attraction but everything sounded amazing.
 
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#31
This might help:
web.archive.org

Knights of the Roundtable: Queensrÿche’s Eddie Jackson and Armored Saint’s Joey Vera Discuss the State of Metal Bass

web.archive.org

JV to EJ - Do you have something that’s your go-to when you’re first setting up? Like a DI and miking an amp?

EJ – I’m pretty conventional. I’m a big fan of 15” speakers. I typically like to record with 15s. I want the speakers to not only be obnoxiously loud, but I also want it to create natural distortion. I want natural distortion coming out of the amp, no effects. That’s where a lot of the grit comes from. And then you have your DI and compression. I basically stick with the Gallien-Krueger 800RB and my 2X15 McCauley cabinets and just turn the thing up until I have the sound I want to record with.

JV to EJ – You play really loud in the studio?

EJ – It’s really obnoxious. We clocked one of my bass tracks at 122db. It was so loud.

JV – That’s against the law you know [laughing].

EJ – If you were to walk into the room where the cabinet is it would sound sort of non-musical, really just distorted and unappealing, but when you get into the control room and add compression and add the DI and all the EQ with the amp and cabinet, you get the end-result that you’re hearing on the record.

JV – Sounds like an old school method, sort of the way maybe Jack Bruce recorded or early Geezer Butler or John Entwistle—super loud and natural distortion.

EJ – Plus I was using a Spector [NS-2] too, which has its own unique sound as well. You’re always reaching for that tone. You can be happy with the results, but you’re still reaching for something even better. It’s just the way we are as musicians.
 
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#32
It all comes down to the Brooklyn/Kramer era Spector NS-2’s. If you’ve ever owned one, you know it’s all about that bass. If you listen to the bands and players of the late ‘80’s/early ‘90’s who were playing Spector’s (Chili Peppers, AIC, Queensryche, etc..) the tone is all Brooklyn/Kramer era NS-2’s.
 
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#33
ModuMan said:
Me too! Suicidal Tendencies opened so we got to see Robert Trujillo as well.

I was at the Richmond Coliseum in Virginia and I was shocked that the place was only like half full. Even Geoff commented "We are small in number but mighty is spirit, yes?" Indeed. The show was a blast. Hearing all of Mindcrime was obviously the main attraction but everything sounded amazing.
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Yes indeed! Worcester Centrum for me!
 
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#36
dpaul said:
It all comes down to the Brooklyn/Kramer era Spector NS-2’s. If you’ve ever owned one, you know it’s all about that bass. If you listen to the bands and players of the late ‘80’s/early ‘90’s who were playing Spector’s (Chili Peppers, AIC, Queensryche, etc..) the tone is all Brooklyn/Kramer era NS-2’s.
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How much do they differ, tonewise, from the newer Korean Pulse series, or even the Euro ones? I'm not taking into account those Performer basses that happen to have a S logo on the headstock, I'm wondering about their cheaper stuff that nonetheless sports a 4-digit tag.
What's so unique about the HAZ preamp? How does it work, freq-wise?

The thing with non-traditional brands is that they experiment and shuffle things, often times even within the same series: different pickups and placements, different preamps, think of Warwick Thumbs... I have a Japanese Ibanez BTB from 1999, one of the first ever built and you can tell it's got something in common with the latest offerings as they share a similar (broad) shape and the same headstock, but that's where similarities end.
 

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