• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

question about keeping time, place in the song

lokerola

lokerola

Nov 2, 2010
186
99
Alexandria Virginia
#1
I am doing OK with general theory, but time and beat and keeping my place in the song is proving tough.

When you are playing a song, do you know exactly what beat and exactly what measure you're on at all times?

I'm finding I can learn the basic bass part, but once I get start playing I can't say exactly where I am in the song. Is this common? Do you learn songs by writing down the words, basically learning the bridge, chorus, and the associated bass parts and piecing it together? Or do you map out the number of measures, where the beats fall on each measure, etc?

I'm feeling time-stupid here and wondering what others do to learn songs.
 
#2
It helps to know the song inside and out. Also audio cues from the vocals or other instruments are invaluable.

The biggest thing is the drummer. If you are playing with a drummer that you know and love, the two of you can be totally lost within a song, and still be in command.

Some parts are important to count. But IME if you know the song, and you know what the other instruments are going to do (for the most part anyway) and you have a drummer that you can FEEL. It all becomes apparent at just about the time that it happens.
 
#3
lokerola said:
I am doing OK with general theory, but time and beat and keeping my place in the song is proving tough.

When you are playing a song, do you know exactly what beat and exactly what measure you're on at all times?

I'm finding I can learn the basic bass part, but once I get start playing I can't say exactly where I am in the song. Is this common? Do you learn songs by writing down the words, basically learning the bridge, chorus, and the associated bass parts and piecing it together? Or do you map out the number of measures, where the beats fall on each measure, etc?

I'm feeling time-stupid here and wondering what others do to learn songs.
Click to expand...

Not an un common problem. Fact is you learn all aspects of the song and that helps you relate to where you are.
Lyrics will help you the most, as you will have chord changes to suit what is being sung, so learn to sing with your songs ( or at least know the lyrics ).
Point of fact, when you learn a song by ear, the bass line you hear helps you find your ways about. Little neuances in the song from a drum sound, bass movement, a vocal pitch, a hesitation, etc. 'cue' you, so when you play it live, the fact those nuances are not there, you can miss where you are. Also do not be afraid to count sections to keep it all together.

As said if you can sing it you will know the important places to be, if you know the other parts and where they should be then you will never ever be lost. It's a skill that develops and needs practice, so learn to sing with your songs first and then fill in the blanks with other parts. This will eventually become a habit that you just do as part of not only learning songs, but in writing them and also when busking or jamming with others.
 
#4
I would never even think of what measure I'm on. But I also know what beat I'm on.

Notes and rhythm come easy for me on most songs now. I struggle sometimes on structure. There's a little bridge I forget or the chorus repeats or something like that.

I don't know what kind of music you play. But for myself, the issue is pretty simple. Just make sure you can play the song all the way through on your own from start to finish......no recording etc.
 
#5
Phalex said:
It helps to know the song inside and out. Also audio cues from the vocals or other instruments are invaluable.

The biggest thing is the drummer. If you are playing with a drummer that you know and love, the two of you can be totally lost within a song, and still be in command.

Some parts are important to count. But IME if you know the song, and you know what the other instruments are going to do (for the most part anyway) and you have a drummer that you can FEEL. It all becomes apparent at just about the time that it happens.
Click to expand...

Fergie Fulton said:
Not an un common problem. Fact is you learn all aspects of the song and that helps you relate to where you are.
Lyrics will help you the most, as you will have chord changes to suit what is being sung, so learn to sing with your songs ( or at least know the lyrics ).
Point of fact, when you learn a song by ear, the bass line you hear helps you find your ways about. Little neuances in the song from a drum sound, bass movement, a vocal pitch, a hesitation, etc. 'cue' you, so when you play it live, the fact those nuances are not there, you can miss where you are. Also do not be afraid to count sections to keep it all together.

As said if you can sing it you will know the important places to be, if you know the other parts and where they should be then you will never ever be lost. It's a skill that develops and needs practice, so learn to sing with your songs first and then fill in the blanks with other parts. This will eventually become a habit that you just do as part of not only learning songs, but in writing them and also when busking or jamming with others.
Click to expand...

klokker said:
I would never even think of what measure I'm on. But I also know what beat I'm on.

Notes and rhythm come easy for me on most songs now. I struggle sometimes on structure. There's a little bridge I forget or the chorus repeats or something like that.

I don't know what kind of music you play. But for myself, the issue is pretty simple. Just make sure you can play the song all the way through on your own from start to finish......no recording etc.
Click to expand...

Great everybody, thanks for the feedback. I feel a bit relieved to know poeple are not necessarily playing by memorizing ever individual beat/note/rest etc, for every measure. I may be farther along than I thought! :p
 
#7
Generally I'm keeping an ear out for what everyone else is doing, as it could be a minor change in the rhythm guitar, a quick fill on the drums, or a short lead that runs into the next key/rhythm/progression/etc. If you have vox in the music those are a big help, especially if you've got a singer who can be really diverse in how they approach sections.

Peace,
Greg
 
#8
I find when a song is new I will be counting phrases and listening for cues, but after a while i'll just be able to snap into the song at any point on auto pilot.

I heard charlie parker (might have been some other jazz legend though) used to fall asleep at recording sessions then wake up sporadically, know exactly where the band is and play a his part, then fall right back to sleep.
 
#10
I find it makes a difference if I'm reading from a lead sheet or musical notation. I know the beat because I hear "one, two, three, etc" in my head but if the tune is new and I'm reading from a lead sheet the place gets hard to find sometimes. While in notation I find I keep my place much better.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back