Question about Learning the Circle of Fifths

[InhumanResource]

Wow. I just googled “circle of fifths” and got lost. I’ve been playing 40+ years and never mastered or understood any of this stuff. I’m sure there is something I’m missing and it’s not as hard as I’m making it, but where is a good place to find “circle of fifths” for people who don’t read music? I’m looking to up my game and this is the kinda stuff I need to brush up on.

Like @Wasnex mentioned, learning the order of accidentals (sharps and flats) is a big piece of the puzzle.

The circle of fifth is what happens when you add the sharps, one at a time but cumulatively, through all keys. The keys “ascend” by a fifth each time, starting from the key of C which has no accidentals/sharps or flats.

Sharps in order: F# C# G# D# A# E# B# (five cops got drunk at Ernie’s bar)

Keys:

C (no sharps, C D E F G A B C)
G (1 sharp and it’s F#. G A B C D E F# G)
D (2 sharps, F# and C#. D E F# G A B C# D)

And so on through all keys. The circle of fourths is the same thing, but applying 1 flat at a time.

Flats: Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb Fb (I don’t have a cute phrase for this one, but luckily for us basses are tuned in fourths!)

First flat key is F (only one flat and it’s Bb), second flat key is Bb (with Bb and Eb) and so on all the way around.

Sounds complicated but it’s a lot easier to visualize when put on staff, at least for me.

In pickup situations, blues and jazz guys tend to communicate in flat keys. Weirdo rock guitar players always gravitate towards sharp keys for some reason, if they are moved to venture out from E.

Happy googling and bassing! Feel free to shoot over any questions

 

[FearNoEvil65]

The circle of Fifths counterclockwise in Fourths is a good way to play through all the 12 keys, like play major triads through all keys, Cmaj, Fmaj, B♭maj, E♭maj, etc. all the way back to C. Play them in different areas of the neck. You can play around the circle in the Minor keys. You can play any riff through all 12 keys also, or an entire scale. I try to do this daily.
A lot of instructors push this, Jeff Berlin, John Patitucci, and Jim Stinnett are a few.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

I do the counter clockwise cycle of fourths for tons of things that aren't songs but are technical/vocabulary practice.
But mane if you start on C and go fiffs to E you got yourself some Hey Joe.

 

[Pings Bass]

You should learn to play (all scales arpeggios, patterns) in all keys, progressing in all different orders (fourths and fifths sure, but also chromatically, stepwise, tritones etc.). The circle of fifths is a good starting point.

My teacher used to tell me "don't brush all your teeth, just the ones you want to keep." If you're just playing guitar rock with people who don't read, you probably don't need any of this. But if you want to play, for example, reading gigs and the leader wants to call a different key to accommodate the singer, a fluid knowledge of intervals will be indispensable.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Learn it clockwise and anticlockwise. There are many useful insights to be gained. Take modes for example. Using C as the tonal cente. C Lydian has the starting note and all the other 6 notes are stacked 5ths clockwise. C Ionian = starting note and 5 stacked 5ths clockwise and 1 stacked 4th anticlockwise. C Mixolydian = starting note and 4 stacked 5ths clockwise and 2 stacked 4ths anti clockwise. C Dorian = starting note and 3 stacked 5ths clockwise and 3 stacked 4ths anticlockwise. C Aeolian = 2 stacked 5ths clockwise and 4 stacked 4ths anticlockwise. C Phrygian = starting note and 1 stacked 5th clockwise and 5 stacked 4ths anticlockwise. Finally C Locrian = starting note and 6 stacked 4ths anticlockwise. Drop the starting note of C Locrian a semitone brings you to B Lydian. Cycle thru B tonality and so on. You can infer that the modes get increasing darkness anticlockwise from Lydian, and brighter clockwise from Locrian.

 

[SteveCS]

In addition to learning the sequence by rote, it is good to understand something of the modulation 'devices' in play as you move around. What notes have to change to initiate the modulation? What tensions and resolutions are occurring to drive or force that modulation and securely state/establish the new key. For example, in the key of C, work out what note gets changed in the minor ii chord to make it major II (2nd Super-Dominant) such that it functions as V of V (G - the 'target' - is 5th of C, D is 5th of G, so perhaps C > Dm > D7 > G?) thus leading to G? See how changing the minor 3rd (F) of the Dm to major (F#) in the D7 chord, and see that this F# is at the same time the leading tone of the target key? How might you reverse that process to go the other way? How might these 'mechanics' be incorporated into the bass line? If you are doing exercises or drills, can you see/hear these devices or are they just moving around the circle by 'brute force'?

 

[bigdaddybass12]

you can go either direction = 5ths. it's a "circle" either way.

Sounds good! Or its either same fret down 1 string, or 2 frets up, 1 string up

 

[mambo4]

The cycle of fifths/fourths has 2 applications, to me:

1. The order of adding sharps/flats to change one key signature to another, already explained
2. The most common harmonic motion in western music

#2 is why practicing an exercise in all keys using the circle is valuable:
Say you learn a cool riff or shape or phrase or exercise and want to do it in all keys.
You could go chromatically up C Db D Eb E ... and so on
But chord changes happen most often with root motion following the circle
So by traversing all keys using the cycle you are not just learning a riff in one isolated key
you are learning the riff as it most likely connects to another riff on the next chord
more like you would encounter it in an actual song

when I practice diatonic arpeggios or igor's chromatic exercise I always go around the circle
In fact the first time I switched arpeggio practice from a linear
C-Dm-Em-F-G-Am-Bdim
To the cycle
Bdim-Em-Am-Dm-G-C-F
It was revelation to my ears

It's not the only harmonic motion but boy is it everywhere

 

[HolmeBass]

Hello. I'm new to TB so I hope this is posted in the right forum. I'm a beginning bass player and have been reading some books and they discuss the circle of fifths. I know that going counterclockwise down the circle, it is also the circle of fourths (flat keys first) and I recently met a teacher who will be teaching in that fashion. Does it matter in which direction the circle is learned? I am into classic rock, so would learning the sharp keys first be more efficient (going in fifths) rather than going in the opposite direction and starting with the flat keys? I guess once you complete the circle it doesn't matter ???

If you go down in pitch instead of up, the sharp keys are 4ths.

Seriously, just be patient, it applies to ALL keys in either/any direction.

 

[micguy]

One of the simple consequences of the circle of 5ths or 4ths, is that if you start a groove in any key, and then move it along the circle, it forces you to play in all 12 keys, which builds flexibility (and possibly frustration, if you're not yet capable in all keys).