Hello. I'm new to TB so I hope this is posted in the right forum. I'm a beginning bass player and have been reading some books and they discuss the circle of fifths. I know that going counterclockwise down the circle, it is also the circle of fourths (flat keys first) and I recently met a teacher who will be teaching in that fashion. Does it matter in which direction the circle is learned? I am into classic rock, so would learning the sharp keys first be more efficient (going in fifths) rather than going in the opposite direction and starting with the flat keys? I guess once you complete the circle it doesn't matter ???
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Question about Learning the Circle of Fifths
- Thread starter jimmack
- Start date
IMO, no. I think both the circle of 5ths and circle of 4ths are very good tools and mastering them wil; serve you in good stead.
Wow. I just googled “circle of fifths” and got lost. I’ve been playing 40+ years and never mastered or understood any of this stuff. I’m sure there is something I’m missing and it’s not as hard as I’m making it, but where is a good place to find “circle of fifths” for people who don’t read music? I’m looking to up my game and this is the kinda stuff I need to brush up on.
Welcome to talkbass!
No, I don’t think it matters. In fact, if you ever end up playing with any horn players you’re much more likely to run into flat keys but, ultimately, you’re learning either way. Enjoy the journey!
Look for a book called The Bass Grimoire by Kadman. I wouldn’t swear to it, but I believe the content in that book is in both standard notation and tablature. It should take you through the cycle as well as the modes.
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Luckily, for bass players, our instrument is such a helpful tool for learning scales/keys/intervals...
First step is knowing the fingerboard cold. If you know where every note is on the bass (both sharps and flats), then you'll notice that fourths are just one string away, and fifths are one string, two frets. If you can visualize your fretboard in your head like that, then you're on your way. Then after a while, you just know it cold. But the fretboard is the best place to start, imo. If you already got the frets down cold, this will be a piece of cake AND you're very smart to learn this stuff because you will use it constantly!
First step is knowing the fingerboard cold. If you know where every note is on the bass (both sharps and flats), then you'll notice that fourths are just one string away, and fifths are one string, two frets. If you can visualize your fretboard in your head like that, then you're on your way. Then after a while, you just know it cold. But the fretboard is the best place to start, imo. If you already got the frets down cold, this will be a piece of cake AND you're very smart to learn this stuff because you will use it constantly!
I actually have a copy of that somewhere. Time to dig through the attic.
you can go either direction = 5ths. it's a "circle" either way.
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I've always thought of it as the Circle of Fourths.
I believe it is more beneficial to study it that way because you'll soon instantly know what chord a V or a II usually moves to.
Sure, there are I -> V progressions in the wild, but there seem to be a LOT more chords resolving up a fourth in the music of the last century.
I believe it is more beneficial to study it that way because you'll soon instantly know what chord a V or a II usually moves to.
Sure, there are I -> V progressions in the wild, but there seem to be a LOT more chords resolving up a fourth in the music of the last century.
same. i call it the "circle of fifths" but i tend to use it in fourths (e.g., when i'm thinking key signatures).
I'm going to post this to "the publics" in case anyone finds it useful, but here's a vid on how to memorize this specifically as a bass player and a little on why it's so useful. 
Circle of Fourths/Fifths for Bass players
Circle of Fourths/Fifths for Bass players
Thinking in terms of the Cycle of Fourths makes a ton of sense with bass, since the natural tuning is in fourths. I found this video helpful, and his mnemonic device stuck with me right away.
Learn The Cycle Of Fourths
Learn The Cycle Of Fourths
Up a fourth = down a Fifth, harmonically speaking, and we should understand it both ways.
If the chords are G7 - C
Harmonically it's a V-I resolution , "down" a fifth
we can play G-C root notes in a variety of ways
sometimes "up a fourth", sometimes "down a fifth", interval wise.
but harmonically it will always be V-I
Learners often conflate descriptions of harmonic motion
with interval motion & moving around the fret board
because words about music ( especially intervals and harmony) are often ambiguous
My teacher taught me this way, calling it the “cycle of 4ths.” Had me play through every major scale, no open strings, keeping within first five frets (until you have to slide up on the G string to reach the last few notes of certain scales… for example, playing an E major scale without open strings means starting on 2nd fret of D string and playing up to the 9th fret E on the G string). This gets you understanding the various fingerings of the same scale, and gets you used to some big stretches and quick position changes.
I suggest learning the sequence of accidentals both ways. The initial goal is to be able to be able to name the major and minor keys based on the key signature, rather than being able to work proficiently in each key.
The keys you will master first will depend on who you play with and what type of music you play. On average, string players tend to play more in sharp keys and horn players tend to play more in flat keys.
Also, I think you will that keys with fewer accidentals are more common than keys with lot's of accidentals. So there is a good chance you need to master F and Bb major before you will need F# major.
For an extended period of time, an organizations I worked for performed a bunch of pieces in Gb major. So I become very proficient at thinking in Gb. After that period passed, my proficiency in Gb declined.
The keys you will master first will depend on who you play with and what type of music you play. On average, string players tend to play more in sharp keys and horn players tend to play more in flat keys.
Also, I think you will that keys with fewer accidentals are more common than keys with lot's of accidentals. So there is a good chance you need to master F and Bb major before you will need F# major.
For an extended period of time, an organizations I worked for performed a bunch of pieces in Gb major. So I become very proficient at thinking in Gb. After that period passed, my proficiency in Gb declined.
