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Question about playing Metal on bass

#41
MaskedJackal said:
I'd just like to chime in and say that Celtic Frost-- one of the heaviest bands ever, imo-- tune to E standard for the first three classic records and sounded TOTALLY huge. Of course, a big part of that was Tom Warrior rolling his tone knob completely off, but I digress...dudes never detuned until Monotheist in 2006.
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Heavy sound is in the rythm first, the tone second, and the tuning maybe third. The reason it is common now, espescially drop what have you, is to simplify the guitar players job as far as I am concerned. I recall reading an interview with Sully from Godsmack who said he couldn't play at all until some guy showed him this "cool way to tune the e string" where he only needed one finger for power chords (kinda puts their music into perspective). Having a good "kick some guys ass" breakdown is the key to a heavy sound, generally followed by a searing fret wanking lead rythm at 200+ bpm. DOn't get me wrong, I love metal of all shapes and sizes, but when stuff written in standard E and played through an amp with a little overdrive gets the crowd moving justas much as drop mud and 15 different distortion effects at once, it would appear that tuning is almost moot.
 
#42
As bassplayer above said (removing the lousy because I must admit I doubt it), it's a lot about rhythm. It's not just the heaviness.

But his post got me thinking about something else, that I think is pretty cool. As a genre, metal stresses a lot of importance on the bass, and not just to 'make it heavy'. Think about it- if the guitarist is just wailing on power chords for his riffs and not using chords which actually show the tonality, who becomes most responsible for the harmonic aspect of the music? The bassist. And, as was said, with rhythm being incredibly important, well...who ties together the rhythm section? The bassist.

Metal 'needs' the bassist more than most genres other than funk- because we, as a source of driving rhythm AND outlining the harmony so that it doesn't just sound like power chord after power chord almost completely dominate two of the three parts that make up music. In jazz our harmonic role is somewhat diminished, because the compers are outlining the harmony. With metal, we're the only thing they've got.
 
#43
Basically all the old school original thrashy metal is in E. It's crazy how it's coming back! What people are calling "metal" now is what I've always thought of as "80's metal." I guess what I do (5-string in standard, guitarist in Drop B) is more like "modern" metal.

You can play in E if your band is in E. If your guitarist is in some funky low tuning, it can be difficult to 1) transpose 2) you'll sound thin playing in higher octaves.
 
#44
SpawnofHastur said:
As bassplayer above said (removing the lousy because I must admit I doubt it), it's a lot about rhythm. It's not just the heaviness.

But his post got me thinking about something else, that I think is pretty cool. As a genre, metal stresses a lot of importance on the bass, and not just to 'make it heavy'. Think about it- if the guitarist is just wailing on power chords for his riffs and not using chords which actually show the tonality, who becomes most responsible for the harmonic aspect of the music? The bassist. And, as was said, with rhythm being incredibly important, well...who ties together the rhythm section? The bassist.

Metal 'needs' the bassist more than most genres other than funk- because we, as a source of driving rhythm AND outlining the harmony so that it doesn't just sound like power chord after power chord almost completely dominate two of the three parts that make up music. In jazz our harmonic role is somewhat diminished, because the compers are outlining the harmony. With metal, we're the only thing they've got.
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Thank you, but your doubts are a bit misplaced :) I get the job done. But I digress, you make an excellent point about the bass in metal. And lets face it, on studio recordings the nuances of the bass player often get lost, but I am certain that if it was gone, even the people who underrate the importance of bass in this genre would know in a minute. Somewhat off topic, God Forbid's studio stuff is a great example of bass standing in the mix in metal. Live the bass just kicks you in the mouth.
 
#46
I play in a metal band that normally tunes down to Drop-D (DADG) however, I use a 5 string bass, so I tune the low-B down to a low-A (ADADG) so I can still use the low-B as I would if tuned to standard (hitting low notes higher up) however, we do have a few songs and covers which are tuned in standard (EADG) and as I have a tuner at the start of my pedalchain, I can tune quickly while muted. I can tune really quick (5-10 seconds usually, as long as it takes to introduce the song). Saves taking 2 basses to the same gig.
 
#47
Downtuning is not an automatic formula for "heavy". It is totally possible to play heavy music in standard and that's been proven.

The metal aesthetic is not just about pitching your instruments down a step or two. That's part of it, but playing metal is about your tones, the tempi, the rhythmic density, often dissonance (or even atonality), in some genres irregular meters. It's about how and what you play, not how you tune your bass.`
 
#48
We play in drop C now, but played in drop D for years before that. I liked drop D because then it was so easy to go back to standard tuning for playing at home and jamming. Now that my main bass is set up for drop C I have to keep another bass around in standard tuning for that...

In the end what you tune to doesn't really matter, but IMO tuning lower does sound pretty good if you have a lot of very chuggy, sludgy, rhythm-heavy riffs. (Try listening to a band like Baroness and tell me they would sound as good in standard tuning...), but getting a "heavy" sound is more about tone and style than tuning alone...
 
#49
Experiment! That's part of the fun of it. I have played E, Eb, D, Db, and now B. I used four strings only for years and now I'm digging the fiver. You can be heavy as piss in standard, but lower tuning is very fun for me. I love doing the booming slides with downtuning. I've even played with different band members using different tunings and just transposing parts. You gotta figure out your own thing for sure. A five string bass will give you the most possibilities, but a BEAD four string will too. Just a preference thing and the way the strings actually 'feel' to you. I kind of like using the B strings cause the tension is a little greater, but sometimes the feel of lower tuning is awesome on bass.
 
#50
I play in DADG (45.-105.) and I love it. Sure, the lower D string is looser, but I just like the feel. While it's more loose than in standard tuning, it doesn't sound bad like in drop C with a .105 gauge. The sound is thick, yet not really muddy. Though I might go for a .110 next time I change strings to get my low D a little more stable.

I like DADG because I can easily go back to standard when I want to, but so far I've been pretty happy with drop D. And like most others said, tuning is only a small aspect of the actual sound of a band. Lamb of God plays in drop D and I dig their style a lot. This is what first made me wanna go drop D.

Drop tuning sometimes is a requirement for some songs. You'll never be able to play most Lamb of God songs with a 5er tuned in standard BEADG. The open D string is used in between almost all higher frets and this is one thing that gives them their distinctive sound. Same for many other bands.

In the end I think it really depends on how your guitarist's tuning. You can follow them to make your life easier, or you can stay standard and work around the fretboard to keep up. It all depends on what you dig.
 
#52
As was posted before, it's all in how you compose it. Your open strings don't necessarily mandate the key you play in, even in metal. My example will be Trivium (I realize they're a "you either love 'em or hate 'em" band, I just don't know why the negativity). First two albums mostly in Drop D, and a lot of the riffs are a bit tricky to pull on a Standard 5er, which is what I always play by default. Starting with The Crusade, though, they went to either standard, or standard 5 strings under standard 7string guitars. If anything, I feel they got heavier just out of songwriting maturity, regardless of the tuning or string count. Plus, you also have songs like "Tread The Floods," played on standard tunings but in the key of Gminor. I mention this not because it's a foreign concept or anything (obviously), but because it is a forgotten idea in the world of "Metal = downtuning = heavy" stereotype.

This is just a single band example in a sea of options. Let your own creative mind be your only limit. And if that means going to Drop-G on your 5er playing under a pair of 1/2 step uptuned 8string guitars, then go for it.

All IMO, of course.
 
#54
There are plenty of metal bands that play in standard tuning.

Most often it gets associated with the NWOBHM bands like Iron Maiden, Angel Witch and Judas Priest.

It's also heavily used by thrash bands (Nuclear Assault, Death Angel, Sodom etc...). Even the new throw-back thrash bands like Municipal Waste and Bones Brigade play in standard tuning.

So, to answer you... no. You do not NEED to downtune. Is there anything wrong with it? No. If you're strange and floppy strings freak you out, get a 5 string to hit the lower notes.
 
#56
I tune my bass H-E-A-D. I even use a drop d-tuner, so i can go as low as A. I reall dont use the G string much in a band setting, so to me its no loss. I also prefer 4 strings...so im happy. If you want to tune down i would recomend that you go all the way down to H, then the notes will be where you are used to have them (only one string up)
 
#57
odin70 said:
I tune my bass H-E-A-D. I even use a drop d-tuner, so i can go as low as A. I reall dont use the G string much in a band setting, so to me its no loss. I also prefer 4 strings...so im happy. If you want to tune down i would recomend that you go all the way down to H, then the notes will be where you are used to have them (only one string up)
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For the curious, H means B.
 
#60
We play tuned a step down, the reason isn't to make us sound "super heavy", we're not a particularly heavy band.


A lot of bands with high pitched vocals down tune so that the vocalist is a little more comfortable. This is the case with us, its more for playing live, our singer was able to do the very high stuff in standard tuning, but it takes a little pressure off him and still sounds great (to us).

Amusing fact - you'll probably find more downtuned guitars in power metal than in black metal for the above reason
 

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