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Question about powered cabs

Dragonlord

Dragonlord

Rocks Around The Glocks
Aug 30, 2000
2,573
464
46
Greece, Europe
#1
OK, I've thought about it for a while, since I first read about the IPs... I really don't get why would you want a powered cab instead of a combo. Less weight? Come on, if they can make the power section so light surely they can squeeze in there a nice ss preamp for 1 or 2 extra pounds. If I understand things correctly, with powered cabs you have to bring a preamp everytime... why not have a preamp, and the ability to bypass it and use the preamp of your choice. I thought about it mostly after I played a 210 Markbass combo that weighs 40smth lbs. After that, I would consider a powered markbass cab as a joke... I just can't see the reason why Bergantino and Accugroove don't put a preamp in there. The weight is a non-issue. The cost? These cabs cost so much, that I doubt anyone would have a problem to pay a little more for the convenience of not having to bring a preamp every time.
Please enlighten me.
 
#3
I'm not saying they should put a top-of-the-line preamp if that would cost a lot. A simple preamp that would make it sound fine and let players use that if they don't want to bring a seperate preamp, or if the preamp breaks or whatever. After all, I've read here many times that the IPs sound good with almost all preamps, it can't be that hard to build one for relatively low cost. The profit's already counted in anyway.
 
#4
While it doesn't interest me, I can totally see where it would fit in (especially the IP DSP type thing... which is more like a high end 'front of house' cab than a bass cab). For those guys who are into the 'studio pure' tone, they are going to be using Millenia pre's, etc., etc... totally different thing than the 99% of the rest of us that use more traditional heads and cabs. It will IMO always be a very small part of the market, but it makes total sense to me.

However, I'm pretty much with you... I actually find that an integrated rig made specifically for bass, and that has a little bit of warmth, grit and growl sounds very, very good versus a more 'PA like tone'... unless of course you have a full PA that can push massive air (huge wattage, multiple large cabs, etc)... which is needed IMO to muscle a very pure tone through a mix and out into the crowd/audience.
 
#5
PS. I mean that, if I were to give $2400 for a powered cab, I might as well give $2650 and have the ability to use it as a standalone. An extra $250 should buy you a preamp that would cost $400-$450 when sold seperate, if you consider that it would be inside the cab so no box, and that the profit is already calculated in the former price of the cab so it would be less than what a manufacturer would expect when selling a seperate unit.
 
#6
KJung said:
While it doesn't interest me, I can totally see where it would fit in (especially the IP DSP type thing... which is more like a high end 'front of house' cab than a bass cab). For those guys who are into the 'studio pure' tone, they are going to be using Millenia pre's, etc., etc... totally different thing than the 99% of the rest of us that use more traditional heads and cabs. It will IMO always be a very small part of the market, but it makes total sense to me.
Click to expand...
There is definitely a market, or else these wouldn't be out... I just find it hard to imagine myself willing to give $2400 for a cab, and not wanting to give a couple hundrer more bucks for the convenience of being able to use it as a standalone amp every now and then.
Obviously, different needs for different players, I just thought we could discuss it and hear all sides.
 
#7
I have found in the case of the IPs that they are such a blank canvas that they are there for us to bring the pre we want for the gig or our tonal preferences. Folks are using pres that vary from fat old school tubishness to nearly not there. It offers a great choice. I wouldn't want some budget pre because sound is very important to me. In fact the fact that you can plug into an IP sans pre makes them immediately usable. I thought about the evolution of these things. Remember Mr. Berg is in the speaker cab business. He knew that many folks were using PA amps with Bass pres with his stuff. So he designs a cab that takes care of the amp part because he can design in the DSP to make a complete unit. Then we use the pres we were using.
I don't think of the Berg IPs as PA kind of clean. If you use the right pre and get your gain stages right for the size of gig these IPs can be warm growly amps that just do the character you wish really well. I have been able to duplicate Hutch w/Bonnie tone all the way to SVT punk/metal tone. R&B to country to pristine solo sound. The thing is that the cab allows your fingers to do the tone choices.
Interestingly enough I tried my iAMP800 pre out into my IP and it didn't sound exceptional at all. Post eq. it sounded quite ordinary. I see now that some of the majic of the iAMP is the speakers and the output section of the head. This was not a good match of a pre with an IP. To me.
 
#8
Dragonlord said:
OK, I've thought about it for a while, since I first read about the IPs... I really don't get why would you want a powered cab instead of a combo.
Please enlighten me.
Click to expand...
The only good reason is if the amp contains DSP circuitry specifically matched to the speaker, which allows better overall performance. Otherwise I feel the disadvantages outweigh any benefits.
 
#11
Dragonlord said:
PS. I mean that, if I were to give $2400 for a powered cab, I might as well give $2650 and have the ability to use it as a standalone. An extra $250 should buy you a preamp that would cost $400-$450 when sold seperate, if you consider that it would be inside the cab so no box, and that the profit is already calculated in the former price of the cab so it would be less than what a manufacturer would expect when selling a seperate unit.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you are not the target market for the IP. The DSP in the IP is matched to the cab, so it makes sense to bundle them together. But people who are willing to pay $2400 for the IP are going to be very picky about their tone. No one preamp is going to satisfy them.

I doubt the target market for the IP sees it as "almost a combo amp". They see it as a power amp and cab that is able to be less coloured than any other power amp and cab combination.
 
#12
Yeah, I'm definitely not in the target group of the IPs. Just chatting to see the other point of view.
I'm not saying that one preamp is going to satisfy them, but it would be nice to have the option to bring the IP, plug in and play instead of having to bring and plug a preamp every time, wouldn't it? Am I missing something?
@remo: I mean a bypassable preamp, so that you can still use whichever preamp you feel like, just being able to run the unit standalone if you like. A built in preamp doesn't steal one bit of the modularity, it only adds even more flexibility.
 
#14
With powered cabs you can use a Line 6 BassPod XT etc etc as a pre-amp. I use an Ashdown pre-amp which has a variable crossover, a feature that the head does no have.
I build my own powered cabs and in doing so save quite a lot of money; I've also now got my own home built Ashdown with facilities that the standard Ashdown combos don't have and it cost me a lot less money that an Ashdown ready made job.
It isn't rocket science putting a powered cab together and if do you use an amp modeling piece of gear then you don't double up on unwanted knobs to twiddle.
 
#16
Dragonlord said:
I'm not saying they should put a top-of-the-line preamp if that would cost a lot. A simple preamp that would make it sound fine and let players use that if they don't want to bring a seperate preamp, or if the preamp breaks or whatever. After all, I've read here many times that the IPs sound good with almost all preamps, it can't be that hard to build one for relatively low cost. The profit's already counted in anyway.
Click to expand...

Only if you are building a purpose built amp module from scratch. So far, the bass cab manufacturers in question are using PA-oriented, off the shelf solutions though. Custom ordering a large minimum order is not cheap. It'd be trivially easy to implement a basic preamp in DSP if the right hardware were in place though. But again, I don't see that as what the market's asking for at this time.

For me, the primary attraction of powered cabs would be about bi- or tri-amping conveniently and with optimal power for each driver. That's seen commonly in the PA world, and onboard DSP is obviously very well suited to crossover configuration, time correction, etc.
 

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