Double Bass Question and Answer (Pat Metheny)

[glocke1]

This tune came up at the request of the guitar player for an ensemble I am in.

Weird tune in that it is in 3/4 yet listening to it, it just does not sound like a simple jazz waltz at all, and of course it being Pat Metheny the bassist on there is exhibiting some great chops and sense of time and feel I just don't have.

Any tips for approaching this? Better yet if someone has transcribed bass line I can study that would help.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

It's a simple tune with an advanced feel on the original recording because it's Dave Holland and Roy Haynes doing what they do. On the head, Holland plays mostly in a "broken/hemiola" 3 feel, leaning most heavily on the dotted quarter note, in essence playing in 2 against the 3. The band only overtly joins him in this feel on the last phrase with the quadruplet rhythmic figures, where Haynes finally joins him in playing in the slower 2 feel.

(click to enlarge)

A good way to practice this feel would be to do as Holland does and shift back and forth between dotted quarter notes and regular quarter notes. This will work to move the groove forward, especially if the drummer keeps strong time (if you have DrumGenius, there are some good waltz loops that would be great for this practice). The way the tune is laid out in 4 bar phrases, a good basic template might be 3 bars of 2 feel finished by one bar of walking 3 to lead into the next phrase with some momentum. Don't worry about all of the flourishes Holland plays - they are beautiful but not essential to the structure!

 

[glocke1]

It's a simple tune with an advanced feel on the original recording because it's Dave Holland and Roy Haynes doing what they do. On the head, Holland plays mostly in a "broken/hemiola" 3 feel, leaning most heavily on the dotted quarter note, in essence playing in 2 against the 3. The band only overtly joins him in this feel on the last phrase with the quadruplet rhythmic figures, where Haynes finally joins him in playing in the slower 2 feel.

View attachment 3314802 (click to enlarge)

A good way to practice this feel would be to do as Holland does and shift back and forth between dotted quarter notes and regular quarter notes. This will work to move the groove forward, especially if the drummer keeps strong time (if you have DrumGenius, there are some good waltz loops that would be great for this practice). The way the tune is laid out in 4 bar phrases, a good basic template might be 3 bars of 2 feel finished by one bar of walking 3 to lead into the next phrase with some momentum. Don't worry about all of the flourishes Holland plays - they are beautiful but not essential to the structure!

Sorry, some of this terminology I've not been exposed to until recently.

2 against 3 means playing 2 notes over the 3 beat measure? So play on 1 and 3?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@glocke1 it means playing one the 1 and the “and” of 2. By doing this, you divide the measure in half.

 

[Sean Riddle]

This is a really good video explaining the polyrhythms Chris Fitzgerald mentioned that will help with playing Question and Answer. The grid method she uses in the video is really helpful in understanding a polyrhythm and it’s something I use in my own practice.

 

[sean_on_bass]

If you know your note durations, 2 over 3 means playing two dotted quarter notes per bar. A dotted quarter note means the duration of a quarter note plus half a quarter note, or the duration of a quarter note with an added eighth note. Generally when folks play in 3/4 they are doing one of three things:

1. Play a dotted half note each bar
2. Play two dotted quarter notes per bar
3. Play three quarter notes per bar

Occasionally you may also run into a half and a quarter per bar or a quarter and a half per bar. I would see that on big band charts from time to time and it can sound nice. You can mix all of these rubrics into the same tune to add contrast. For example you might play #1 during the head and switch to #2 or #3 during the solos. The tempo and feel might call for you to do one thing or another as well(dense vs sparse rhythm).

 

[glocke1]

Ok thanks, got it..that clears a lot of things up, as did finding some YT videos of versions that have others playing it.

I've been playing some waltzes with dotted quarter notes for awhile, I just didn't realize it was called 2 over 3. Thats what happens when you are part self taught.

Next question. The way the chart is written, it sounds like for some of the measures that have two chords, the second chord comes in on the and of two, correct ?

Such as measure twelve ?

 

[Sean Riddle]

Ok thanks got it..that clears a lot of things up, as did finding some YT videos of versions others playing it.

I've been playing some waltzes with dotted quarter notes for awhile, I just didn't realize it was called 2 over 3. Thats what happens when you part self taught.

Next question. The way the chart is written, it sounds like for some of the measures that have two chords, the second chord comes in on the and of two, correct ?

Such measure twelve ?

Yes, the few measures in the A section and the last 4 measures in the B section should be played as dotted quarters or dotted eighths. I’ve noticed when playing waltzes now that if there are two chords in a measure, just about everyone will play dotted quarters or eighths in the rhythm section.

 

[matthewbrown]

It's a simple tune with an advanced feel on the original recording because it's Dave Holland and Roy Haynes doing what they do. On the head, Holland plays mostly in a "broken/hemiola" 3 feel, leaning most heavily on the dotted quarter note, in essence playing in 2 against the 3. The band only overtly joins him in this feel on the last phrase with the quadruplet rhythmic figures, where Haynes finally joins him in playing in the slower 2 feel.

View attachment 3314802 (click to enlarge)

A good way to practice this feel would be to do as Holland does and shift back and forth between dotted quarter notes and regular quarter notes. This will work to move the groove forward, especially if the drummer keeps strong time (if you have DrumGenius, there are some good waltz loops that would be great for this practice). The way the tune is laid out in 4 bar phrases, a good basic template might be 3 bars of 2 feel finished by one bar of walking 3 to lead into the next phrase with some momentum. Don't worry about all of the flourishes Holland plays - they are beautiful but not essential to the structure!

I love what Dave Holland and Roy Haynes do on this tune, along with all the other tunes they play together. But this one especially!

 

[Joshua Pickenpaugh]

Amazing album, I wore out the cassette when I bought it in '89.