Question for band leaders/owners

[BassGuyFL]

Quick question for the band owners/leaders. I mean the ones that run the show, book the gigs, handle the finances, call the shots etc. You took on the responsibility of the BL and the extra pay/glory but do you ever say that it's not fair that the others don't help book gigs or cover band expenses?

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Run your business the way you want.

It's been a while since I've run my own band but my current BL consults with me quite a bit on band business. If I have a lead for a gig I will usually refer them the BL since she has the contracts, knows the expenses that need to be covered, knows what the band is worth, and generally what the client can afford, etc. The BL normally takes a little larger cut to cover band expenses and pay herself a little more for all of her extra time and efforts keeping the band busy. Nobody minds. I really don't have the time or desire to haggle over pay, rooms, meals, per diem, etc. The band likes to show up, play, and get paid.

What's "fair" is that she tells us what a gig is going to pay and we either agree or disagree that it's worth it. But being the kind of BL she is, it's almost always worth it. If it's not, we'll tell her and she'll either pass on the gig or book the gig out to another band.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[BassGuyFL]

Thanks but I'm not the BL it's one that I know. They run the band with 100% autonomy no one else has a say so in anything but they often say it's not fair that they have to cover expenses yet they own the band and equipment.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Your BL is complaining about covering expenses? Hmmm. Expenses usually come out of the gross pay. This can either be in the form of the BL taking a larger cut or the expenses are deducted right off the top. The net pay is then split up. If the BL is complaining about not being fair then perhaps they're not doing it right.

If I haul my PA to the gig, I will generally get a little larger paycheck for my extra time and trouble. What expenses does your BL complain about?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Kmonk]

Quick question for the band owners/leaders. I mean the ones that run the show, book the gigs, handle the finances, call the shots etc. You took on the responsibility of the BL and the extra pay/glory but do you ever say that it's not fair that the others don't help book gigs or cover band expenses?

Thanks but I'm not the BL it's one that I know. They run the band with 100% autonomy no one else has a say so in anything but they often say it's not fair that they have to cover expenses yet they own the band and equipment.

In my band, everyone owns their own equipment. The venues we play provide PA. The guitarist and I run the band. We discuss venues, money and sign the contracts on behalf of the band. He handles the bookings, I handle the finances and the personnel issues such as our concerns with a band member's performance, readiness to play new songs, etc. I also handle firing if necessary and make sure that everyone receives an IRS form 1099 at the end of the year. Band expenses, if any are deducted prior to the band being paid. We are upfront about how much the band is getting paid, how much is being deducted for band expenses and what each member will be paid (always an equal share after expenses).

 

[will33]

Thanks but I'm not the BL it's one that I know. They run the band with 100% autonomy no one else has a say so in anything but they often say it's not fair that they have to cover expenses yet they own the band and equipment.

If they run with full autonomy like you say, etc., they also assume all risk and expenses, more like an employer/employee relationship.

There are other ways ofrunning a band that is more delegating roles/responsibilities that results in more spreading around of risk/reward without falling into anarchy.

Of course, there is also being a band, where everybody plays their strong suit and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Tech guy takes care of gear, salesman type books gigs, arranging talent helps with arrangements, etc.

Or, you could just go total anarchy and hope the chemistry's right.

I've played with my share of the first type in the past. Old-school types who think there's band leader, then there's "these other guys". Except they seem to mostly just want to bitch at people and make them jump to their whims while deflecting blame and spreading around risk when things don't work out. They want all the reward without the risk. I don't play with them.

If yours is that type, they'd better be THE attraction, THE draw, that could replace the entire band without missing a beat or losing a single ticket sale. If they're not, they're full of it.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Imagine if your boss wanted you to put your own gas into the work vehicle. Work expenses are the employer's problem, not the employees.

 

[Burt35]

Quick question for the band owners/leaders. I mean the ones that run the show, book the gigs, handle the finances, call the shots etc. You took on the responsibility of the BL and the extra pay/glory but do you ever say that it's not fair that the others don't help book gigs or cover band expenses?

That is an absurd approach for anyone to take. Unless you are willing to cede some of the decision making to others, or pay them more, you can't expect them to assume BL duties.

People will put in exactly what they think they are getting out of something. Members need to have a sense of ownership and that comes from the BL soliciting opinions, listening to the opinions, and making the members feel like their points of view matter. You don't need to do this as a BL, but if you want members to do anything other than show up for rehearsals and gigs, you'd better give them some sort of incentive.

 

[BassGuyFL]

In my band, everyone owns their own equipment. The venues we play provide PA. The guitarist and I run the band. We discuss venues, money and sign the contracts on behalf of the band. He handles the bookings, I handle the finances and the personnel issues such as our concerns with a band member's performance, readiness to play new songs, etc. I also handle firing if necessary and make sure that everyone receives an IRS form 1099 at the end of the year. Band expenses, if any are deducted prior to the band being paid. We are upfront about how much the band is getting paid, how much is being deducted for band expenses and what each member will be paid (always an equal share after expenses).

So you would agree that it's on you to pay for gas and tires and oil changes and other expenses because you run the band?

 

[lowfreq33]

That's like the manager at a restaurant complaining that the dishwasher never helps with payroll.

 

[lowfreq33]

So you would agree that it's on you to pay for gas and tires and oil changes and other expenses because you run the band?

The bandleader needs to account for those expenses when splitting the money. Bandleaders generally take a larger cut for that very reason.

 

[Stumbo]

If they run with full autonomy like you say, etc., they also assume all risk and expenses, more like an employer/employee relationship.

Pretty much exactly like an employer/employee relationship.

Seems to me that issuing 1099's for this type of band is really misclassifying the relationship.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Every band is different, but expenses should come off the top. In my band, another does most of the booking because he has the contacts. We use his PA (we have more than one, but he likes his). I make sure I do extra with load-in and out, and things like that.

 

[emf818]

lol, band, treat it like a business, lol.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

lol, band, treat it like a business, lol.

Which is why a lot of musicians are in the predicament they are today.

If you want to make a living playing music, or part of a living playing music, somebody has to treat it like a business. That can be you, your agent, your accountant, your manager, whoever. If you just want to have fun in your garage or down at the local dive or critter lodge then you don't really have to treat it like a business.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[butchblack]

If they run with full autonomy like you say, etc., they also assume all risk and expenses, more like an employer/employee relationship.

There are other ways of running a band that is more delegating roles/responsibilities that results in more spreading around of risk/reward without falling into anarchy.

Of course, there is also being a band, where everybody plays their strong suit and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Tech guy takes care of gear, salesman type books gigs, arranging talent helps with arrangements, etc.

Or, you could just go total anarchy and hope the chemistry's right.

I've played with my share of the first type in the past. Old-school types who think there's band leader, then there's "these other guys". Except they seem to mostly just want to bitch at people and make them jump to their whims while deflecting blame and spreading around risk when things don't work out. They want all the reward without the risk. I don't play with them.

If yours is that type, they'd better be THE attraction, THE draw, that could replace the entire band without missing a beat or losing a single ticket sale. If they're not, they're full of it.

I long ago gave up the idea of being a BL. I'm a lousy salesman with little tolerance for the games you often have to play with club owners. However, my background is in photofinishing, so I make all of the band's flyers, e-mail pics, etc. I'm comfortable enough with the way the band's being run including enough of a say in things to be heard. I don't like bands where I have no say, so I won't join one like that, although I have no problem with the occasional fill in gig like that.

 

[Kmonk]

So you would agree that it's on you to pay for gas and tires and oil changes and other expenses because you run the band?

Why would I pay for gas and maintenance on band members personal vehicles? I don't use band money to pay for gas and maintenance on my vehicle. There are 6 people in our band and none of us live near each other. The average distance between each of us is about 15 miles. As a result, we rent a rehearsal space which is near the midway point for all of us although, I have the longest drive, about 50 minutes. The member with the shortest drive is about 25 minutes. When we travel to gigs, we all take our own vehicles. There is no reason to use band money for any of this. It's up to each individual member to take care of it on their own.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I'm not talking about that. But if the BL has other expenses, traveling to get the gigs, PR costs, additional expenses to haul and maintain the PA, those should be covered.

 

[BayStateBass]

Hi,



Which is why a lot of musicians are in the predicament they are today.

If you want to make a living playing music, or part of a living playing music, somebody has to treat it like a business. That can be you, your agent, your accountant, your manager, whoever. If you just want to have fun in your garage or down at the local dive or critter lodge then you don't really have to treat it like a business.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Very true.

As far as the OP's question, if the bandleader has 100% authority and power in the group, and takes an extra cut of the money, then I do not believe he/she should be upset about others not helping with typical BL duties. However, if the BL splits the money equally (as ours does), then I do feel it's the responsibility of everyone to help out where they can. That's just being fair and courteous.

 

[mrpackerguy]

Quick question for the band owners/leaders. I mean the ones that run the show, book the gigs, handle the finances, call the shots etc. You took on the responsibility of the BL and the extra pay/glory but do you ever say that it's not fair that the others don't help book gigs or cover band expenses?

No because it's my choice and the guys appreciate the job I do. If I need help with expenses, it's discussed. Like adults.