Question on chord progressions and a few other thigns

[Synthax]

Well ive been making a lot of progress guys, thanks to you all. But a few things are causing me grief still.

In reference to chord progressions etc , if a particular tune is in key of g and its a I IV V progression , that means that the progression moves from a triad at G to the next triad at the fourth and fifth? Or should i be playing the following for each roman numeral

I chord: Ionian
ii chord: Dorian
iii chord: Phrygian
IV chord: Lydian
V chord: Mixolydian
vi chord: Aeolian
vii chord: Locrian

Is there a quick and easy easy way to tell what the progression is (I IV V etc) , having trouble figuring out this is, chords just kind of blend together at the moment
.

Sorry if ive confused things, im very confused myself and ive read a ton about it, i just cant seem to find that AHA answer that fixes it for me.

Thank you for any and all help

Neil

PS OMG inversions are the devil, Im so completely lost , think I may beed to figure out my chords first before this one clicks.

 

[Russell L]

Back up a little, pal. Don't worry about all those modes right now. Think about this:

On the piano, the white keys from C to C are the C major scale. Starting on the note C, play C, E, and G. That is a C major triad (chord). It is also designated the I ("one") chord. Notice that you have skipped every other note. That's called "stacking 3rds." (Consider CDE as 123, DEF as 123, and EFG as 123). From C to E is the interval of a 3rd (specifically, a major 3rd). From E to G is a minor 3rd. Now, you can start on D and skip every other note (stacking 3rds again). You get DFA, which is a D minor triad. It is the ii chord in the key of C (lower case Roman numerals used for minor). And so forth for the iii, IV, V, vi, and vii (diminished) chords. All the time, you are using ONLY THE WHITE NOTES. That means that you are building chords using ONLY the notes that are in the key of C. That is called "diatonic harmony." If, for instance, your ii chord needs to be major instead of minor, you will have to use a black key. But, black keys are not part of the C major scale, so at that point you have stepped away from being diatonic.

Lemme stop there. That's enough to try to grasp all at once. Hope it helps for now.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Well ive been making a lot of progress guys, thanks to you all. But a few things are causing me grief still.

In reference to chord progressions etc , if a particular tune is in key of g and its a I IV V progression , that means that the progression moves from a triad at G to the next triad at the fourth and fifth? Or should i be playing the following for each roman numeral

Russell and I posted at the same time --- Here is what he said, just different words. Let's take this part first. The I IV V progression is always a safe progression to use. Why? Well first those three chords will have every note in I's scale. Why is that important? Well to harmonize, the melody line and the chord line, should share like notes. If the melody is not using some of the chord's notes (or visa-versa) you ear tells you that you no longer are harmonizing and it's time to get another chord that does contain some of the melody notes or insert a harmonizing note into the old chord - as an extension, etc. So those three chords - having every note in the parent I's scale will be all you need to harmonize I's melody.

Every scale will have three major chords, three minor chords and one diminished chord. Let's forget about the diminished chord for right now, it will not show up in simple songs. If the song is going to be major then the I, IV & V are the major chords and the vi, ii & iii will be the minor chords. If the song is to be major you can assume the chords used are going to be the major chords (I IV V) and the vi, ii & iii will be used as color chords, i.e. they add color or flavor - they are not considered as being structural chords. I know you are asking then; "Why do I see I-vi-IV-V7-I". The vi adds a little color to an otherwise generic I IV V progression. But, that vi to justify it's place in the progression still has to harmonize with the melody - so you see it's a balancing act between moving the chords along in the verse and harmonizing the melody. I know if it was easy every body would be a song writer.

I chord: Ionian
ii chord: Dorian
iii chord: Phrygian
IV chord: Lydian
V chord: Mixolydian
vi chord: Aeolian
vii chord: Locrian

This is getting into modes and you are correct with what you have here. I did notice you were using upper case Roman numbers for your major chords and lower case Roman numbers for you minor chords. That's also correct.
But, let's hold off playing modes, as you are talking about, for later. Right now when you see a chord play it's root on the 1 beat. Need more play the 5 note on the 3rd beat. Need more the 8, and the correct 3 and 7 will be good choices. Ask specific questions if that was not clear. IMO modes are great for melodic solos and melodic accompaniment (fills, licks, etc.), however, I suggest you concentrate on chord tone accompaniment right now. Get that under your fingers and then take on melody.

Is there a quick and easy easy way to tell what the progression is (I IV V etc) , having trouble figuring out this is, chords just kind of blend together at the moment.

Yep, they do. We have to get our ears used to hearing the chord changes. Will take some time for this to happen. Keep plugging. Suggest you start playing from some fake chord sheet music and after awhile you will anticipate the changes. In my classic ole time Country I can count on the verse starting with the I chord, then at the end of the first line moving to the IV chord. The second line of the verse will continue with the IV chord and near the end of the second line the V7 chord will enter the song and then quickly the second line will end with the I tonic chord. The 3rd and 4th line of the verse will repeat this same format. Why? The lyrics (story) needs movement - verse starts at rest (I) then moves to tension (IV) then reaches climax (V7) then quickly returns (resolves) to rest (I). So a new thought or verse can come into the song.

Is it like that all the time? No. But, I can assume it'll be that way and adjust when my ear tells me that's not happening. You gotta play a lot of songs for your ear to start anticipating the next chord. Songwriters usually have their favorite chord progression and stick fairly close to the same thing. That's why I can assume Country songs will do as I outlined above. Check some fake chord on your type of music and then see what seems to be the favorite progression. That was a big WOW for me. Light at the end of the tunnel got brighter.

Neil

PS OMG inversions are the devil, Im so completely lost , think I may beed to figure out my chords first before this one clicks.

Forget about inversions for now there are more important things to work on. This elephant is best eaten one bite at a time. Pick one thing and work on that. When that is flowing under your fingers then tackle the next item.

I think your first thing to work on is what chords get in each scale/key. If you learn how to stack 3rds, as Russell talked about, you will understand chords and chord progressions better. I know it's Jell-O right now. If you need help with stacking 3rds just ask. Here is the A scale stacked.....

Purpose of this paper is to call attention to the skip-a-note method
 of harmonizing a scale.   Take the scale then by skipping a note you build
 the chords for that scale.  Skip a note is an easy way to identify the notes
 within the chords of that scale.  From that you can then using the chord’s 
spelling to name the chord, i.e. 3 = major, b3 = minor, 7 = maj7,
 b7 = dominant seventh or minor seventh, m7b5 = ½ diminished, b5 bb7 = 
a full Diminished, etc.  From there you can identify that specific chord’s 
function within the key, i.e. I-IV-V, etc.  This chart can be used as a study 
of how chords are formed. 
Code:
A Major 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Note	Chord		Spelling	Chord Name		Function
A	A-C#-E-G#	R-3-5-7		Amaj7			I	Tonic			
B	B-D-F#-A	R-b3-5-b7	Bm7			ii
C#	C#-E-G#-B	R-b3-5-b7	C#m7			iii
D	D-F#-A-C#	R-3-5-7		Dmaj7			IV     Sub dominant
E	E-G#-B-D	R-3-5-b7	E7			V      Dominant
F#	F#-A-C#-E	R-b3-5-b7	F#m7			iv
G#	G#-B-D-F#	R-b3-b5-b7	G#m7b5			vii     ½ diminished

Question -- Why is the B chord minor?  Were did that b3 come from?  Well 
the B [u]major[/u] scale has a D# and an A# in it's scale so when you ended up with 
B-D-F#-A for the chord tones you flatted the 3rd and the 7th - and a 
flatted 3rd and 7th gives a Bm7 chord -- Drum Roll!!  Get a clean sheet of paper and
stack 3rds for the C scale.  Use the above as your Rosetta stone. Once you've 
stacked one scale you can stack any scale.

As bassists the chord spelling is important to us. Helps make our bass lines.

Good luck. Ask specific questions. Lot's of help here.

 

[FretlessMainly]

if a particular tune is in key of g and its a I IV V progression , that means that the progression moves from a triad at G to the next triad at the fourth and fifth?

Simple answer is yes, as detailed by the other posts. I would add that it is better for you to think of chords as 1 3 5 7 and not just triads. That 7 can really add flavor.

And inversions aren't too bad. In the bass world, you can simplfy the concept. If the band is playing a GMaj7 chord and you play a G over the whole chord or most of it, you are thinking root position. If you choose to play a B over the whole chord or most of it, you are imparting a first inversion feel. If you choose to play a D over the whole chord or most of it, you you are imparting a second inversion feel. Inversion is simply a way of describing which chord tone (almost always confined to the root, 3rd and 5th with respect to inversions) is being expressed most strongly in the bass.

 

[Russell L]

As to inversions, a first inversion with the 3rd of the chord in the bass is the most used, and has the most pronounced sound, IMO. It also helps in chord changes, like going from I to IV. In C:

C--C/E--F (that's I---I with the third in the bass---then IV). The 3rd of the I chord is only a half-step from the root of the IV chord, so it leads the ear to the IV chord.

A good use of second inversion (the 5th in the bass) is when you are going from the I chord to the V chord. Since the root of the V chord is the 5th of the I chord, you can play that note while on the I chord, in anticipation of the V chord. In C:

C/G---G (C with the 5th in the bass---G in root position).

 

[Synthax]

Thank all of you very much , things are starting to click , now if my fingers would catch up with my brain. Thanks again and I'll try and make a nice update on my progress from scratch soon. Am coming up on 3 months

 

[Russell L]

Thank all of you very much , things are starting to click , now if my fingers would catch up with my brain. Thanks again and I'll try and make a nice update on my progress from scratch soon. Am coming up on 3 months

Sounds good, pal.

Say, listen to "Layla." On the second part, where the piano comes in, when they all get to following it, listen to the bass. The harmony starts on the I-chord in root position, then goes to a first inversion I-chord with the 3rd in the bass, then the whole harmony goes to the IV-chord in root position, just as I described above. It's a good example of what that kind of harmonic movement sounds like.

 

[Snarf]

Well ive been making a lot of progress guys, thanks to you all. But a few things are causing me grief still.

In reference to chord progressions etc , if a particular tune is in key of g and its a I IV V progression , that means that the progression moves from a triad at G to the next triad at the fourth and fifth? Or should i be playing the following for each roman numeral

I chord: Ionian
ii chord: Dorian
iii chord: Phrygian
IV chord: Lydian
V chord: Mixolydian
vi chord: Aeolian
vii chord: Locrian

Is there a quick and easy easy way to tell what the progression is (I IV V etc) , having trouble figuring out this is, chords just kind of blend together at the moment
.

Sorry if ive confused things, im very confused myself and ive read a ton about it, i just cant seem to find that AHA answer that fixes it for me.

Thank you for any and all help

Neil

PS OMG inversions are the devil, Im so completely lost , think I may beed to figure out my chords first before this one clicks.

Simple triad studies are what you should be looking at. Study progressions and the inversions of each chord. Get comfortable with arpeggios and simple bass lines. Modes aren't relevant yet.