Double Bass Questions and topic requests

[neilG]

Double Bass Methods - A Summary ?


Hi folks,

Wondering if someone could point me to a concise and accurate list of commonly utilised bass methods, with a brief summary/precis of the main defining characteristics/pros/cons of each?

Expanding from electric bass guitar to upright bass, and in my quest to help find the best teacher for me, it'd be handy to have a contextual framework against which to consider their preferred approaches.

Cheers!
Chris

Well, I don't have such a list but a comment:

A teacher's approach does not necessarily influence what book they use. For instance, even if I liked it, I wouldn't require a middle school kid to purchase Book 1 of Rabbath because it's so expensive. I could easily teach the same method from the much less costly Simandl book. That's what pencils are for.

Personally, I teach from Simandl, and the pencils still get a workout.

 

[Anthony White]

I have a question I'd like to put to teachers about memorisation of what can be loosely grouped as 'jazz theory'.

I've reached the point in studying jazz where I clearly need to memorise a bunch of stuff. I'm thinking particularly of the seven greek modes, the five common modes of the ascending melodic scale, etc.

So I understand all of these - I know, for example, that the phrygian is the third mode of the major scale, and that (thinks a moment) it is therefore spelt 1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, b7, etc. And that, thus, in C it is (thinks for another moment) C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, etc.

But I need to get from understanding it in an intellectual way, to knowing it so that it is at my fingertips, tip of the tongue, tip of the earlobe, without having to think about it.

So, is there a pedagogical consensus, or a set of leading opinions, on the most efficient way to memorise this stuff?

Is picking a scale and writing it longhand a dozen times a day a useful technique?
Do I sit at the piano and play the mode while singing the names of the scale degrees, then the names of the notes? Do I do this at the bass?
Do I pick one mode, and learn it in twelve keys first? Or one key, and learn the seven modes in that key?

I'm not really expecting it to be anything other than a memorising slog, I would just like to be sure that if I'm spending hours doing this a week, that I am doing it the most efficient way possible.

Thanks for any help,
Anthony White

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I am interested in starting a thread on this to answer but am slammed at the moment. If anyone else starts one, i will be happy to weigh in when the schedule allows.

 

[Treyzer]

I am interested in starting a thread on this to answer but am slammed at the moment. If anyone else starts one, i will be happy to weigh in when the schedule allows.

Just to push this forward a bit. I find that when I really know a tune and I'm only using my ears to create/navigate through the changes. Wonderful things can happen (at least in my mind) .

I'm not worried about where I am on the fingerboard and I'm not concerned about what the basic changes are. At that point, I can begin to create both better bass lines and more creative interesting solos. At that point, I feel that I'm beginning to approach playing music.

To that end, part of my practice regimen is to learn and really hear a new tune at least a few times a month in a way that's very close to what Ed Foosball suggests!

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Just wondering out loud to the teachers around here. Current pedagogy mostly focuses around arco, rote practice, scales, physical relationships with the instrument, theoretical concepts/relationships between music and harmony, etc. Other than maybe transcriptions, these all seem to be areas focused outside of a primary reliance on the ear and ear training.

So what would be a curriculum that was purely focused on the ear. Ferinstance, what if you had an extremely gifted student who had no background in jazz but wanted to play it but had an easy time learning technique to the point that you didn't need to focus on it. And the hitch with this student: he's blind.

Soloing concepts? Repetoire? How would you handle these things? What would you do differently than with a non-blind student?

 

[JonBurr]

Just wondering out loud to the teachers around here. Current pedagogy mostly focuses around arco, rote practice, scales, physical relationships with the instrument, theoretical concepts/relationships between music and harmony, etc. Other than maybe transcriptions, these all seem to be areas focused outside of a primary reliance on the ear and ear training.

So what would be a curriculum that was purely focused on the ear. Ferinstance, what if you had an extremely gifted student who had no background in jazz but wanted to play it but had an easy time learning technique to the point that you didn't need to focus on it. And the hitch with this student: he's blind.

Soloing concepts? Repetoire? How would you handle these things? What would you do differently than with a non-blind student?

Have him play with recordings.
He could even learn classical pieces and orchestral repertoire if the bass is distinguishable enough for him. The challenge for the teacher will be in preparing the materials.

 

[neilG]

I don't think I'd do much differently with a blind student. With sighted students you do a lot of explaining and poking, so that wouldn't change. Learning music would certainly come from recordings or Braille music. There is such a thing, but you'd have to invest in the software and hardware to create it.

 

[Paolo T.]

I have a topic request. Just beginning with an electric upright (after playing a little bass guitar), and can't really get the 1, 2, 3+4 fingering. I find the 1, 2+3, 4 fingering easier and nearer to the interval lenght on the string (lower notes are more spaced than the higher; and so is the space betwee fingers 1-3 compared to fingers 1-2).
Is there a reason for using the 1, 2, 3+4 fingering instead of the other one?

Thank you,
Paolo

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Paolo - thread created about your question here.

 

[CherylTheSinger]

As a public school teacher I could always use advice with beginners at school. I am a chorus and general music teacher with many years of violin lessons (but a long time ago) and just a few years on electric and double bass (recent, a passion, continuing, and growing). We have strings in our band in a tiny school. The band director and I work with the students, and few if any take private lessons on any instrument, including voice, ever ever ever in our district. If they did take bass lessons it would be over an hour drive. It's up to us!

 

[Lis Valle]

Hi!
When do you consider than a stuent could start teaching on their own? Is there a specific skill that separates a student from a teacher? Is there a particular set of abilities and theoretical knowledge one should master before starting to teach?
I'm asking motly because in my country, formal degrees in anything music related are extremely rare, specially if you are looking for instrument lessons.
TYIA

 

[AGCurry]

Hi!
When do you consider than a stuent could start teaching on their own? Is there a specific skill that separates a student from a teacher? Is there a particular set of abilities and theoretical knowledge one should master before starting to teach?
I'm asking motly because in my country, formal degrees in anything music related are extremely rare, specially if you are looking for instrument lessons.
TYIA

I do not think you must be a master player to be a good teacher. It doesn't take a great mathematician to teach algebra, and some geniuses in their given fields are not particularly good teachers.

Teaching requires:
1. The commitment to spend more time preparing lessons than giving lessons;
2. Organization skills;
3. Observation and assessment of each student's needs, strengths, weaknesses, and learning style;
4. Ability to shape teaching to the factors in #3;
5. Patience and humor;
6. Selection of appropriate pedagogical materials;
7. Confidence without arrogance;
8. The ability to quickly observe and correct errant habits and suggest alternatives.

In addition, the teacher of "bass beginners" should know:

1. How to hold the bass properly;
2. How to hold a bow properly;
3. Proper shape of the left hand;
4. Simandl fingering and shifting, well enough for it to be almost automatic;
5. How to read music, well enough to sightread and play decently the material being used;
6. A degree of musicianship sufficient to transcend technical adequacy.

Obviously, the teacher of more advanced students must also be more advanced.

 

[David Potts]

Well said by AGCurry above. Can you tell us more about yourself (this is not an inquisition!) -
- which country are you in
- what instruction have you had and with which bow (French or German)
- in which genre (jazz, classical, folk, etc)
- by how competent a teacher
- how advanced are you technically
- what size bass would you teach on (will this set the approximate height and age of students)
- do you have access to smaller basses for younger students

I think that the way you introduce the instrument to a beginner is important. My introduction is free, very non-threatening and can take up to an hour during which I -
- have let them find where I teach
- have asked them to bring their bass and all the other gear (cover, bow, rosin, any music, etc) if possible
- tell them a little about yourself while you eyeball each other
- demonstrate the parts of the bass and how it works
- show them how to stand and pick up/balance the bass, make a note (A on the G string) with the LH and pluck the open strings and A with the RH
- show them how the bow works, how and why we use rosin, a simple bow hold and let them make sounds with the bow
- explain how you will teach them and from what music (initially perhaps photocopies from your library)
- all the time asking gentle questions about them, what draws them to the bass, what they hope to do (genre), whether they can already play another instrument, can they read music, do they have a bass and bow or can they hire/borrow them, can they bring their own bass to lessons, etc
- towards the end of the session tell and ask about proposed lesson lengths, times and your charge rate before mutually agreeing to start lessons.
- have a cake of rosin for them or tell them where to buy it or hire gear if necessary.

Teaching/learning the double bass can be broadly divided into four "departments", LH technique and use, RH use and technique, combining the two hands nicely and mapping the fingerboard/reading music. Every lesson might include some of each. You will become more skilled at guiding a path through the process. AGCurry and I have made all this sound rather intense and serious but if you are happy and relaxed and enjoy teaching you will find it is very satisfying and helps strengthen your own playing.

Best wishes, DP

 

[Randy Archer]

I am looking at upgrading my son's bass from his laminated student bass to a carved bass. Specifically we are looking at either the Shen SB200 Willow or, the SB200 Busetto. He loves playing both instruments and they both sound great. He would be happy with either, but prefers the Busetto. I really like the Busetto as well (just from an aesthetic standpoint). However, we don't see Busettos being played in orchestras. Everyone keeps saying that it's all a personal preference thing. And, everyone keeps saying the Busetto is a beautiful bass. So, why don't we see more of them? I don't want to get it and then find out he is passed up for orchestra positions because his instrument isn't appropriate. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Brilee]

The principal in my orchestra places a Solano busetto (with extension) that sounds very good. They are not visually everyone's cup of tea, but they can sound swell. I tried Shen Rogeri, Busetto, Mirecourt, Willow, and some others, and I bought the Mirecourt, which is also "an unusual choice" but feedback has only been positive. How good does he sound is likely to be the overriding concern, not how it looks. Listen to your guts and if you both agree, go for it.