Rattling noise coming from bridge

[Alex_231]

Good evening fellow bassists,
I have three basses (Fender AM Prof. JB, Squier 70s Vibe PB, Ibanez SR605) and all of them have the same/ a similar problem. When plucking near the bridge, there is some rattling noise coming, which is audible through headphones though but not really through the amp. I have visited my luthier countless times and we found that it seems to be coming from the bridge saddles. I even sent the AM Pro in to Fender themselves, they returned it and said they did not find anything unnormal. But the problem still persists.

What I have done so far:
- I adjusted the saddles so that they are as parallel to the bridge-plate as possible
- I tightened the tuners (Fender did that as well)
- the truss rod is adjusted properly, i have around 0.5-0.75mm relief at the 7th fret
- witness-points for the strings are set
- the frets have been adjusted by my luthier and by Fender themselves
- every other screw that could possibly be loose has been tightened

I wil attach a DI recording of the problem. I think it is only clearly audible when listening through headphones.I hope that maybe someone has another aspect to look for in this troubleshooting process. Thanks in advance

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Good evening fellow bassists,
I have three basses (Fender AM Prof. JB, Squier 70s Vibe PB, Ibanez SR605) and all of them have the same/ a similar problem. When plucking near the bridge, there is some rattling noise coming, which is audible through headphones though but not really through the amp. I have visited my luthier countless times and we found that it seems to be coming from the bridge saddles. I even sent the AM Pro in to Fender themselves, they returned it and said they did not find anything unnormal. But the problem still persists.

What I have done so far:
- I adjusted the saddles so that they are as parallel to the bridge-plate as possible
- I tightened the tuners (Fender did that as well)
- the truss rod is adjusted properly, i have around 0.5-0.75mm relief at the 7th fret
- witness-points for the strings are set
- the frets have been adjusted by my luthier and by Fender themselves
- every other screw that could possibly be loose has been tightened

I wil attach a DI recording of the problem. I think it is only clearly audible when listening through headphones.I hope that maybe someone has another aspect to look for in this troubleshooting process. Thanks in advance

A few things don't add up here. Not that I doubt you are experiencing a problem, but just some of the results.

All three bases have the same problem, but not "really" heard through the amp, just headphones?

Is it not "really" or not at all? Makes a difference. "Not really"implies that it may be happening through the amp, just less noticeable.

If you have the same noise with three basses, but using the same amp and headphones, either all three basses actually have the same problem or it's the headphones, because you ruled out the amp, or did you?

Was this also the case when you visited your luthier? You took all three basses, your amp and headphones?

How is it that your luthier was able to determine where the problem was, but was not able to fix it?
Did he determine a saddle problem with all three basses?

Hopefully you see what I'm getting at. For anyone to be able to offer suggestions, we need a clearer picture of what's going on.

 

[Alex_231]

Hi,
thanks for your reply.
Not really heard through the amp is a bit of a misexpression of mine. What I really meant is that you can hear it when the high-mids and highs are turned up >+10 , but in "normal" conditions EQ-wise, it is indeed not audible. It is also audible on the bass when playing unamplified, so I ruled out the headphones as cause for this problem.
When I visited the luthier, I took all three basses, but not the amps or the headphones. When we tried it, we didn't hear it through his amp. I hadn't found out yet that the problem is worse when cranking the highs and high-mids, but based on that I assume the problem would have occured in this situation as well. The luthier indeed couldn't 100% determine what the problem was, he just assumed that it may be caused by the bridge and levelled the saddles as much as possible (which made the problem a little better but didn't solve it completely) but didn't have any other ideas to fix it. As I had already read that this problem is often caused by the bridge, I found his assumtion for the root of the problem quite logical. But even after levelling the saddles, setting up the bass properly and adjusting the frets, it still was persitent. That was the point when I decided to send it in to Fender (warrany) and they, as mentioned above, told me they didn't find anything and the problem is not solved. One thing that has to come to mind was to maybe look for a second luthier to get a second opinion for that, but I wanted to try and find a solution here first

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Hi,
thanks for your reply.
Not really heard through the amp is a bit of a misexpression of mine. What I really meant is that you can hear it when the high-mids and highs are turned up >+10 , but in "normal" conditions EQ-wise, it is indeed not audible. It is also audible on the bass when playing unamplified, so I ruled out the headphones as cause for this problem.
When I visited the luthier, I took all three basses, but not the amps or the headphones. When we tried it, we didn't hear it through his amp. I hadn't found out yet that the problem is worse when cranking the highs and high-mids, but based on that I assume the problem would have occured in this situation as well. The luthier indeed couldn't 100% determine what the problem was, he just assumed that it may be caused by the bridge and levelled the saddles as much as possible (which made the problem a little better but didn't solve it completely) but didn't have any other ideas to fix it. As I had already read that this problem is often caused by the bridge, I found his assumtion for the root of the problem quite logical. But even after levelling the saddles, setting up the bass properly and adjusting the frets, it still was persitent. That was the point when I decided to send it in to Fender (warrany) and they, as mentioned above, told me they didn't find anything and the problem is not solved. One thing that has to come to mind was to maybe look for a second luthier to get a second opinion for that, but I wanted to try and find a solution here first

OK. That clears up a few things. Thanks. I must however disagree with the logic. Just because you read it somewhere, does not automatically mean that it applies to your situation. It's certainly something to look at, but you've already done that almost to exhaustion.

Have you considered replacing one of the bridges? Or swapping bridges between the Fender and Squier as a test? Not sure what bridge arrangement is on the Ibby.

I still find it odd that all three basses across two different companies are presenting with the same problem.

You say you only hear the rattling when "plucking near the bridge." The strings carry the vibrations to the bridge regardless of where they are plucked or played. Though the vibrations are in different intensities depending on where the string is played along it's length.

Luthier can't find a problem. Fender didn't find a problem. All three basses do the same thing, but only when plucking near the bridge. We've ruled out the amp and headphones (EQ adjustments only contribute to being able to better hear it, but not causing it.)

At this point, it seems the only common denominator may be playing style? The closer you play to the bridge, the more energy you impart on the bridge as transferred from the strings. You may not get as much vibration over the pickups when playing near the bridge and this may reduce volume, making you want to hit harder to compensate.

If you normally play near the bridge, you might want to try raising the pickups a little. If you need to compensate for something, try doing it that way and go a little easier on your plucking.

 

[Lownote38]

Could be the springs on the intonation screws, but on 3 different basses? I wouldn't think so.
Nevertheless, I've had thay happen, and the solution was to take spring out, stretch it to a bit longer length, and then put it back on.

 

[Alex_231]

OK. That clears up a few things. Thanks. I must however disagree with the logic. Just because you read it somewhere, does not automatically mean that it applies to your situation. It's certainly something to look at, but you've already done that almost to exhaustion.

Have you considered replacing one of the bridges? Or swapping bridges between the Fender and Squier as a test? Not sure what bridge arrangement is on the Ibby.

I still find it odd that all three basses across two different companies are presenting with the same problem.

You say you only hear the rattling when "plucking near the bridge." The strings carry the vibrations to the bridge regardless of where they are plucked or played. Though the vibrations are in different intensities depending on where the string is played along it's length.

Luthier can't find a problem. Fender didn't find a problem. All three basses do the same thing, but only when plucking near the bridge. We've ruled out the amp and headphones (EQ adjustments only contribute to being able to better hear it, but not causing it.)

At this point, it seems the only common denominator may be playing style? The closer you play to the bridge, the more energy you impart on the bridge as transferred from the strings. You may not get as much vibration over the pickups when playing near the bridge and this may reduce volume, making you want to hit harder to compensate.

If you normally play near the bridge, you might want to try raising the pickups a little. If you need to compensate for something, try doing it that way and go a little easier on your plucking.

I am actually a person who tends to pluck a little harder, especially when playing on the bridge pickup. Maybe this is the way to fix this. It is surely something worth trying. I will also try raising the bridge pickups a little and hope that‘ll make it easier.
Thanks!

 

[Alex_231]

Could be the springs on the intonation screws, but on 3 different basses? I wouldn't think so.
Nevertheless, I've had thay happen, and the solution was to take spring out, stretch it to a bit longer length, and then put it back on.

I will also try that, seems like a good suggestion to me, thanks!

 

[BaldyLee]

What I really meant is that you can hear it when the high-mids and highs are turned up >+10 , but in "normal" conditions EQ-wise, it is indeed not audible.

Highly unlikely, borderline impossible that all 3 of your basses have the exact same issue. From the quote above I’d bet dollars to donuts that it’s a frequency related reaction/vibration somewhere down the line. I was convinced I had a loose tuner and it was a coffee mug vibrating on a glass table. Basses shake stuff.

 

[alembicguy]

Seen this before with active basses and it was actually the battery rattling in the battery box or the control cavity.
Not saying it’s happening with yours but just giving a instance where I’ve seen it.

 

[Alex_231]

Highly unlikely, borderline impossible that all 3 of your basses have the exact same issue. From the quote above I’d bet dollars to donuts that it’s a frequency related reaction/vibration somewhere down the line. I was convinced I had a loose tuner and it was a coffee mug vibrating on a glass table. Basses shake stuff.

that‘s what I also thought of when playing through the amp but it wouldn‘t vibrate when playing through headphones. As mentioned above, maybe i am really plucking too hard sometimes and i guess you could bring any bass to make some unwanted noise when using too much force

 

[Alex_231]

Seen this before with active basses and it was actually the battery rattling in the battery box or the control cavity.
Not saying it’s happening with yours but just giving a instance where I’ve seen it.

I will definitely try that, thanks!

 

[Jazz Ad]

DO you use Schaller strap locks by any chance ?

 

[Alex_231]

DO you use Schaller strap locks by any chance ?

On the Ibanez yes, on the Fender and Squier not yet

 

[Alex_231]

OK. That clears up a few things. Thanks. I must however disagree with the logic. Just because you read it somewhere, does not automatically mean that it applies to your situation. It's certainly something to look at, but you've already done that almost to exhaustion.

Have you considered replacing one of the bridges? Or swapping bridges between the Fender and Squier as a test? Not sure what bridge arrangement is on the Ibby.

I still find it odd that all three basses across two different companies are presenting with the same problem.

You say you only hear the rattling when "plucking near the bridge." The strings carry the vibrations to the bridge regardless of where they are plucked or played. Though the vibrations are in different intensities depending on where the string is played along it's length.

Luthier can't find a problem. Fender didn't find a problem. All three basses do the same thing, but only when plucking near the bridge. We've ruled out the amp and headphones (EQ adjustments only contribute to being able to better hear it, but not causing it.)

At this point, it seems the only common denominator may be playing style? The closer you play to the bridge, the more energy you impart on the bridge as transferred from the strings. You may not get as much vibration over the pickups when playing near the bridge and this may reduce volume, making you want to hit harder to compensate.

If you normally play near the bridge, you might want to try raising the pickups a little. If you need to compensate for something, try doing it that way and go a little easier on your plucking.

Plucking a little easier actually made it worse as the bass tone itself is not that loud anymore. But what i‘ve come across is that it could be the nut slots for the strings. Is it possible (regarding physics) that the string is rattling in those slots even when playing a fretted note and that this vibration is audible?

 

[Zooberwerx]

Appears you ID'd the usual suspects so I apologize if I repeat something. On occasion, I hear things thru the cans I wouldn't hear otherwise.

*Think your relief may be a bit high. I generally aim for 0.3 - 0.35 mm (.012 - .014").

*Adequate break angle at the nut and bridge saddle, 3+ wraps on each machine head post.

*Re-set your witness points.

*Saddles parallel to base plate and all locking grub screws secure.

The fact this fault is shared by all 3 basses prompts me to rule-out the simple stuff which may be operator-induced.

Riis

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Plucking a little easier actually made it worse as the bass tone itself is not that loud anymore. But what i‘ve come across is that it could be the nut slots for the strings. Is it possible (regarding physics) that the string is rattling in those slots even when playing a fretted note and that this vibration is audible?

Yikes! It's traveling? Must be a rattlesnake?

"But what I've come across is that it could be the nut slots..."

Please stop letting things that you read on the internet or wherever, influence what you think might be wrong. Only through systematic testing will you uncover the real problem.

First it was all three bases rattling at the bridge. Now you think it's happening at the nut in spite of your luthier saying it was bridge saddles?

And the softer you play the more noticeable it is?

Can you hear this rattle acoustically, on the bass, when not being amplified?
Let's do a test to rule out something in the room vibrating.

Try playing all three basses one after the other and note the results.
Also note them as Bass 1, Bass 2, and Bass 3.
Without using the amp, with the cable unplugged from the bass at the output jack, play each bass as described below. Attempt to play in the same manner for each test.

1) Play all three softly near the neck. Which ones rattle?
2) Play all three basses aggressively near the neck. Which ones rattle?
3) Play all three softly near the bridge. Which ones rattle?
4) Play all three aggressively near the bridge. Which ones rattle?
Report your results.

 

[Alex_231]

Yikes! It's traveling? Must be a rattlesnake?

"But what I've come across is that it could be the nut slots..."

Please stop letting things that you read on the internet or wherever, influence what you think might be wrong. Only through systematic testing will you uncover the real problem.

First it was all three bases rattling at the bridge. Now you think it's happening at the nut in spite of your luthier saying it was bridge saddles?

And the softer you play the more noticeable it is?

Can you hear this rattle acoustically, on the bass, when not being amplified?
Let's do a test to rule out something in the room vibrating.

Try playing all three basses one after the other and note the results.
Also note them as Bass 1, Bass 2, and Bass 3.
Without using the amp, with the cable unplugged from the bass at the output jack, play each bass as described below. Attempt to play in the same manner for each test.

1) Play all three softly near the neck. Which ones rattle?
2) Play all three basses aggressively near the neck. Which ones rattle?
3) Play all three softly near the bridge. Which ones rattle?
4) Play all three aggressively near the bridge. Which ones rattle?
Report your results.

It is the most noticeable when playing unamplified, but it seems to make its way through the PUs. It also only occurs when playing long, fretted notes (i think I forgot to mention that earlier) mainly on the E-string, sometimes on the A-string, but not on D and G. I'll attach a file. Since it is worst on the E and A string, i used those for reference

 

[Zooberwerx]

It also only occurs when playing long, fretted notes (i think I forgot to mention that earlier) mainly on the E-string, sometimes on the A-string, but not on D and G. I'll attach a file. Since it is worst on the E and A string, i used those for reference

So it's not present upon the initial attack but slowly evolves / appears as the note rings out?

Riis

 

[Alex_231]

So it's not present upon the initial attack but slowly evolves / appears as the note rings out?

Riis

Yes, that's it, 100%. But i guess it's also there at the attack, it's just much quieter than the actual bass tone

 

[Zooberwerx]

Yes, that's it, 100%

Okay, here's the deal: If you read my earlier post, I would adjust my relief (.012-.014")...you may have to raise the string height via saddle a tad. Using a pocket rule, I aim for 1/16" at the G and 3/32 at the E". Don't be afraid to go a little higher so stuff doesn't "choke out".

A vibrating string is a strange agent. Once struck, they vibrate in an elliptical pattern on which the axis / plane rotates or evolves. Eventually, the plane of vibration is perpendicular to the fingerboard and buzzes against the underlying frets. Where is the greatest string movement / arc and which strings have the greatest mass-in-movement? Answer: the middle and the larger gauge strings (A & E). You have to fold these into your set-up w/ considerations to relief, string height, and fret / fingerboard health and topography. IOW, you need a required clearance for the string to vibrate cleanly.

Riis