This video amazes me. The students have got tens of thousands of dollars worth of basses between them, yet they can't pull off a simple rhythm exercise. They should have spent their money on lessons before shelling out for the flashy gear.
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Reading bass music... why play that note?
- Thread starter barrywomb
- Start date
This video amazes me. The students have got tens of thousands of dollars worth of basses between them, yet they can't pull off a simple rhythm exercise. They should have spent their money on lessons before shelling out for the flashy gear.
I agree with this. I find that 90% of tabs use fingered notes where open strings would serve just as well, and in many cases the open strings cause less hand fatigue. To me, tabs are handy as a starting point but are worth exactly what you pay for them: nothing. The best they can do is show you the notes; after that it's usually up to me to abandon the fingerings shown and develop my own. I learned on upright bass, and I never found that open strings are anything to disdain. tab writers seem to find it a point of pride to avoid playing open notes. Balderdash.
Sheet music is different in that it DOES indicate where the notes are to be fingered. I always found it very difficult to read notes above the staff - by the time I got three or four lines up, I was lost. The only way to compensate for that is playing it and transposing the notes down to a lower octave if necessary. But unlike tabs, sheet music also indicates the tempo and key (not that I could always remember which notes were sharp and flat), and indicates the duration of each note.
Not having read sheet music for more than 20 years when I laid off bass, I find that it's more difficult for me to read it than it used to me. I sometimes yearn for an orchestral bass part which only has the bass line on it, because I find reading a full score extremely difficult.
But - each has its strengths and weaknesses. For rock and popular music, tabs are generally sufficient even if they are almost always wrong in the fingerings they call for.
I agree 100% except the comment about tabs: tabs CAN take you plenty of places - none of them where you want to be.
Yes, I could take the time to learn to staff but to be honest at this point and with all of the stuff I have going on musically, unlearning what I know is nigh impossible - electracoyote is SPOT ON:
I've talked to our drummer and guitarist about learning to read the staff (they're both full time music instructors) and they just wave their hands and say, "Don't worry about it. You've got your system and it works," which is the equivalent of saying "You're screwed up enough to make it work, don't screw with your goofed up methods or you won't have anything to run with and we'll never get anything done ever again."
I mean this week I've had to finish Dream Theater's "Erotomania," Porcupine Tree's "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here," "The Creator Has a Mastertape," (I have had to put Liquid Tensions' "Acid Rain" on hold until next week); I have to write an 8 measure bass solo in Cm/A for an original, I have to learn a new piece the guitarist has written (he wrote out the entire bass line for the whole song, which is weird bc I usually write my own lines, and it's fun to see how someone else envisions bass lines - it's not how I would have written it at all, which is COOL but challenging), and I had a rehearsal with one band last night and I've got another one with another band Thursday night. Oh, and a full time job, 5 kids, 3 wives, a life filled with luxury and foreign intrigue, you know how it goes. It's not that unusual a week for me, I've got to sit in while we audition some potential front people for my main band oh, and LT's "Acid Rain" will have to be SOLID within a few weeks.
Practically speaking, it doesn't leave a lot of time to brain dump everything I've mis-learned and bastardized after nearly 40 years of playing, learn the staff without falling on old habits, put it to full use quickly and rise like a Phoenix from the ashes of bad tabs and fake books.
Ain't no one got time for that! So instead of being an inspiration, I've accepted my role as a warning sign - LEARN TO READ MUSIC!
Now, about that section in "Acid Rain," about 2 minutes in...
Great rant, sincerely. Lots of good points there.
And to be clear, I was not saying that having a great ear and using TAB are bad or wrong. I feel just the opposite; that kind of intuitive skill set is quite valuable. Although I read and consider it a good skill worth developing, the majority of what I do as a musician does not involve it, strangely enough, because my ear has become so developed, like yours.
But if you or anyone DOES endeavor to learn sight reading in standard notation, suddenly your natural gift becomes a crutch and deterrent and actually prevents you from learning to read in standard notation. You have to make efforts to distance yourself from anything too familiar or easy, because your ear takes over and you're not really reading any more. That was really my only point.
If I had to sight-read Standard Notation, and fortunately for now I don't, then I would choose the note on the fretboard that is the most efficient to the next note, as already stated. I'm not going to worry too much about the correct "tone" or extra techniques (these notes were supposed to be a "hammer-on" then "pull-off"). My first priority is to get through the music.
As far as sight-reading rhythm, to me it's pure experience of recognizing off-beats and whatever. The best way is just sub-divide everything into the smallest note length. If I look goofy whispering, "One ee and ah two ee and ah three ee and ah four ee and ah" yet it works... I'll be whispering it a lot to get the rhythm down. And man, if I had to face a rhythm like that, you might see a few tears.
I already made many posts about Tab and Standard Notation. If I had to learn "Jerry Was a Racecar Driver" from Primus with Standard Notation, you'll see a lot more tears.
As far as sight-reading rhythm, to me it's pure experience of recognizing off-beats and whatever. The best way is just sub-divide everything into the smallest note length. If I look goofy whispering, "One ee and ah two ee and ah three ee and ah four ee and ah" yet it works... I'll be whispering it a lot to get the rhythm down. And man, if I had to face a rhythm like that, you might see a few tears.
I already made many posts about Tab and Standard Notation. If I had to learn "Jerry Was a Racecar Driver" from Primus with Standard Notation, you'll see a lot more tears.
I can read notation, but not to the point that I can read and play at the same time. I used to be able to do it with clarinet, 30 years ago, but not now. I am very familiar with the note time values, but the position on the staff trips me up, and treble clef is easier for me to read (go figure!). One of these days I will sit down and commit it to memory a bit better.
Tab is a quick and dirty way of learning a song, and I don't think anyone should use it by itself. The tabs online are garbage, if at all possible get something that's more official that was transcribed by a professional. What everyone is saying about tabs is true for the most part, but it does have a few merits if you go to the right sources. Also, professionally transcribed tabs always have the notation along with it, so you have note length as well as the correct sheet music.
I use tab in conjunction with notation when my ear isn't good enough to pick out something that might be buried in a recording.
Tab is a quick and dirty way of learning a song, and I don't think anyone should use it by itself. The tabs online are garbage, if at all possible get something that's more official that was transcribed by a professional. What everyone is saying about tabs is true for the most part, but it does have a few merits if you go to the right sources. Also, professionally transcribed tabs always have the notation along with it, so you have note length as well as the correct sheet music.
I use tab in conjunction with notation when my ear isn't good enough to pick out something that might be buried in a recording.
I've mostly played by ear (and sometimes tab) since I started playing 15 years ago and have just started working on reading standard notation in the last 6 months. My only advantage is that I took some piano lessons and played tuba in middle school band during my formative years, so I had a basic understanding of reading notes and rhythms to begin with. There's a lot of good advice in this thread already but here are some additional things that have helped me progress/not give up:
- Learning to read fluently takes years of consistent practice. Don't feel bad about taking it slowly and learning little by little.
- Read every day. In fact, read several times a day. You will get better results from multiple short sessions than one long session. Consistency is key here because, every day that you don't read, you will backslide a little bit.
- Practice reading rhythms without your bass. There are tons of reading exercises available for free online. Start with the easiest ones you can find and tap/clap them out. Start slowly. Use a metronome (also available for free online) to keep you in check.
- Start learning your fretboard now! I know this has already been mentioned. Start with the natural notes on the first 5 frets of each string and gradually build from there. Also, start learning scale/arpeggio patterns if you haven't already. They will help you connect the dots!
- As soon as you have a basic understanding of notation, start transcribing! Find some simple bass lines (or make your own) and write them out in standard notation. If you can write it, you can definitely read it.
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Just so's ya know. When the tuba or trombone player pass you their music to play, it won't be tab. And the band leader/conductor won't take any silly whining in a pleasant manner.
I hate playing from tuba sheet music. I really have to work at it because half the notes are on the lower ledger lines, and most bands don't have convertible bass line sheets to work from.
Trombone stuff is ok though.
I hate playing from tuba sheet music. I really have to work at it because half the notes are on the lower ledger lines, and most bands don't have convertible bass line sheets to work from.
Trombone stuff is ok though.
I don't think anyone ever actually answered your original question. The way you know where to play is because every line or space on a bar of music corresponds to a note on the neck of your bass that sort of naturally falls into a reachable position. It's up to you to find the best depending on your hand size (reach) and finger strength. If you are playing solo. In the bass section of an orchestra, where everyone must play the same the same thing the same way, the first chair (principal) makes that call. The main advantage of sheet music over tabs (other than usually not being wrong), is that it gives you the length of a note, which of course teaches you the rhythm of the lick being played. It also gives you some back up when the smarty-pants guitar player tells you that you're playing something wrong. Oh, and bass music is written an octave higher that it actually is, so if someone hands you a tuba or piano part, good luck.
Oh, I completely skipped a whole page of responses. Sorry, your question WAS answered, and well. But here's another tip: Beware sheet music transcribed by someone unfamiliar with alternate tuning. Example: I have seen music for Hendrix off a half-step because the describer didn't know Jimi was playing in E and tuned down to Eb.
Different strings, being different thicknesses and tensions can produce a different timbre to the note--open strings as well.
Sometimes it makes sense to travel further to play the note for that reason--but normally I will play the closest one.
If you want to get a workout figuring that sort of thing out--take up classical guitar (Although typically the classical guitar notation I've seen also indicates position, so you know where they want you to play the note.)
One thing I like though with A & D when they're the pitch of the open strings, is to play the open string and the same note on the 5th fret of the lower string--either in unison or individually--it builds up a bigger sound--it won't work for everything, but when it does--it's col.
I also use the open E and the 7th fret on the 3rd string to play the octave E--together they sound thick, but bright.
Sometimes it makes sense to travel further to play the note for that reason--but normally I will play the closest one.
If you want to get a workout figuring that sort of thing out--take up classical guitar (Although typically the classical guitar notation I've seen also indicates position, so you know where they want you to play the note.)
One thing I like though with A & D when they're the pitch of the open strings, is to play the open string and the same note on the 5th fret of the lower string--either in unison or individually--it builds up a bigger sound--it won't work for everything, but when it does--it's col.
I also use the open E and the 7th fret on the 3rd string to play the octave E--together they sound thick, but bright.
I must be way too elderly...when I was a kid we learned to read music in elementary school 
Although I am not a good sight reader (atrophy), I never thought of reading as hard since I started at such an early age.
When I took up BG, I just went out and bought the Carol Kaye and Mel Bay books (all there was back then) and started reading to teach myself. When I started studying DB, the books sometimes have fingering suggestions above the staff but never tab.
My first exposure to tab was when I roomed with a banjo player at college. His banjo books were in tab perhaps because 5-string banjo is open tuned (commonly in D or G). Tab makes more sense when playing in different tunings.
Part of the fun of playing string instruments is that unlike keyboards there may be multiple places to play the same note. This has many benefits...large interval jumps and unusual chord voicings are easy...but it requires the player to find the best fingerings. When I started on DB I discovered how many fingering options I had never even explored on BG because I had only learned a few pattern shapes and shifted them up and down the neck as needed. Shifting is discouraged on DB (due to the much longer scale length) so I had to learn a whole new set of fingerings. First I learned that you could play an octave in any key within the space of the lowest four frets (well, frets on BG) rather than constantly jumping up the neck. That lead to understanding that in any position with minor shifts (a semitone up or down) you can play in all 12 keys anywhere on the neck.
A great exercise for fingerings is to work out the major and minor scales for all twelve keys staying within the first four frets (counting the open string, that's five semitones per string), then move up to frets 4-8 and do the same, then 8-12. When you get to 12-16 it starts repeating.
Although I am not a good sight reader (atrophy), I never thought of reading as hard since I started at such an early age.When I took up BG, I just went out and bought the Carol Kaye and Mel Bay books (all there was back then) and started reading to teach myself. When I started studying DB, the books sometimes have fingering suggestions above the staff but never tab.
My first exposure to tab was when I roomed with a banjo player at college. His banjo books were in tab perhaps because 5-string banjo is open tuned (commonly in D or G). Tab makes more sense when playing in different tunings.
Part of the fun of playing string instruments is that unlike keyboards there may be multiple places to play the same note. This has many benefits...large interval jumps and unusual chord voicings are easy...but it requires the player to find the best fingerings. When I started on DB I discovered how many fingering options I had never even explored on BG because I had only learned a few pattern shapes and shifted them up and down the neck as needed. Shifting is discouraged on DB (due to the much longer scale length) so I had to learn a whole new set of fingerings. First I learned that you could play an octave in any key within the space of the lowest four frets (well, frets on BG) rather than constantly jumping up the neck. That lead to understanding that in any position with minor shifts (a semitone up or down) you can play in all 12 keys anywhere on the neck.
A great exercise for fingerings is to work out the major and minor scales for all twelve keys staying within the first four frets (counting the open string, that's five semitones per string), then move up to frets 4-8 and do the same, then 8-12. When you get to 12-16 it starts repeating.
I would disagree with you. Any method that helps you learn a song has value. Most of what people are playing these days has no available sheet music. Many times the bass is so far down in the mix, it is hard to get exactly right. Although tabs usually have no indication of rythmn and the shown fingerings may be awkward, they can show you which notes to play when you can't make it out by ear.
My first attempt is always by ear. If there are parts I am not sure of, I will look for sheet music, which I probably wont find, then, It will be on to a search for tabs which is usuall easy, but you will find several different versions, so I will have a look at all of them and try them with the recording I am working from.
I do agree tabs are often incorrect and sheet music, when you can find it, is usually a piano part and not what the bass player is playing, so neither (IMHO) is more valuable than the other.
And I will say that no written notation of any kind really conveys a musical idea, or at least the idea the composer had in mind. Only the ear can understand a musical idea. There is no reason to eliminate a resource just because it isn't "acceptable". Have you asked Jeff?
One of the cool things about bass clef (and every clef) is that it points a note out to us. The line between the two dots to the right of the clef show us where F (3rd fret, D string or equivalent) is. From there you can count one way or another if you need to figure out pitches. Alternatively, you can always try what we use for our beginning DB players in orchestra: Essential Elements 2000 for Strings
This book will address basic note reading, rhythms, and a few key signatures. There are more advanced concepts in the subsequent 2nd and 3rd books. Best of all, there are some easy pieces that you know (Twinkle, Jingle Bells, etc.) and some easy pieces that you won't recognize. IMO, this is a good way to help ease the initial difficulty of notation reading. Do a few exercises per day, and it'll start making sense in no time. Just realize that some of the techniques won't apply to BG (I'm looking at you, slurs!), lol.
Once you've gotten through some basic books like that, you might consider investing in something like the Real Books. They are collections of lead sheets in whatever genre you choose to purchase. The basic Real Books are jazz, but I've seen them for some other styles as well. Learning the melodies off of lead sheets will help with your melodic playing, too. Small steps will lead to longer term success.
This book will address basic note reading, rhythms, and a few key signatures. There are more advanced concepts in the subsequent 2nd and 3rd books. Best of all, there are some easy pieces that you know (Twinkle, Jingle Bells, etc.) and some easy pieces that you won't recognize. IMO, this is a good way to help ease the initial difficulty of notation reading. Do a few exercises per day, and it'll start making sense in no time. Just realize that some of the techniques won't apply to BG (I'm looking at you, slurs!), lol.
Once you've gotten through some basic books like that, you might consider investing in something like the Real Books. They are collections of lead sheets in whatever genre you choose to purchase. The basic Real Books are jazz, but I've seen them for some other styles as well. Learning the melodies off of lead sheets will help with your melodic playing, too. Small steps will lead to longer term success.
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I must be the odd duck. I've found it much easier to play by ear, rote and play along with a YouTube video where I can see what the bass player is doing. I also mark up our song list with any pattern that might be difficult. When I mark it up, I just put the note name.
Learning by ear and watching someone are definitely valuable skills. Being able to learn from multiple sources (i.e. rote AND notation) grants a flexibility that only using a single method lacks. The difficulty with just putting a note name is that it doesn't describe rhythm or octave; it just isn't descriptive enough. I frequently have to fight this issue with students who come to me from other teachers.
Edit: I guess I should note that guitarists and BGists reading notation is important to me. I have to teach guitar class and once they drink the tab kool-aid, there is usually no going back. They do things like not even trying to take playing tests over standard notation. They aren't even difficult lines. It's also really easy to play without understanding what you're playing (especially at the beginning).
The first two sentences here are pure baloney. Ever attended a symphony concert? And I by no means suggested anything that would dismiss ear training - that's how most people start out. It's how I started out! Having worked with some young players, my experience with those who lean heavily on tabs is that they usually have developed some other bad habits that take some undoing, so my recommendation to those picking up the bass is to avoid them.
Ever attended one? Yes, all those I played in. I can read music. I can read tabs. I can use my ear. Whatever works.
I stared out on piano at age 6 because my mother was a piano teacher. I entered band and orchestra in 5th grade and was tutored by my father who studied to be a symphony conductor and was a high school band director, so I'm not interested in lectures from you. Your assertions are nonsense. Use every tool have have available to get the job done.
I think that reading sheet music, reading tab, and playing by ear are all worthwhile techniques that should be practiced as they all have value. I don't prefer to use tab but I can, I prefer sheet music or, ideally, just memorizing the line after playing by ear; however, I can do all three methods and they all have their place.
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