Reading bass music... why play that note?

[barrywomb]

I'm trying to teach myself to read bass music (as opposed to just being able to play by ear which has gotten me through to this point). I remember when trying to do this for guitar as a kid, I'd get confused by 2 things mostly:

1) The whole counting deal (reading notes and being able to count them properly) - If I know the song, I can fake that. If I have never heard it and had to, say, clap the rhythm, I'd be out of luck.

2) Knowing where on the neck to play the notes. After all, there are many positions to play all the notes.

For this post, I'm more interested in number 2 (though I do realize for bass that 1 is of primary concern as well.

Because I'm a Beatle geek and stumbled upon this yesterday from a Facebook post, I'm looking at the bass music for George Harrison's "Something". One of my favorite McCartney bass lines. (Man, how do people think of this stuff against those chords?)
http://bassmusicianmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Something-Bass.pdf
have a look.

My question is: If the tab wasn't there, how would I know where to play the notes on the bass?
As an example, the Eb in the first measure. Looking at the staff and not the tab, how do I know that Eb is not actually played on the first fret of the D string? As a player, I kind of look for what's closest, but in the tab, it jumps way up to the 6th fret to play that, where you could just reach over a bit and play it with your hand near the first F you're already playing.

Hope the question makes sense. It seems that tab is better for showing what is actually fretted as opposed to the notes but I'd much rather learn the notes.

 

[ArtechnikA]

My question is: If the tab wasn't there, how would I know where to play the notes on the bass?
As an example, the Eb in the first measure. Looking at the staff and not the tab, how do I know that Eb is not actually played on the first fret of the D string? As a player, I kind of look for what's closest, but in the tab, it jumps way up to the 6th fret to play that, where you could just reach over a bit and play it with your hand near the first F you're already playing.

Short version, 'cause I'm no music teacher...
The bass line has a direction.
You strive for economy of motion, and like a chess player, you must look a couple of moves ahead.
In your example, why would you not play the Eb next to the F you're on?
What's the note _after_ the Eb ? Is it closer to the 1st fret, or the 6th you just shifted to ?
Tabs are _A_ fingering, not THE fingering, because you are not Paul McCartney. Even if the Tab is "as-played" correct, which many are not...

 

[David Jayne]

I'm not a great reader but I can tell you that as you get better at it, groups of notes start to take on a 'word' quality in the same way that letters in the alphabet do. You start to read ahead a bit and see which 'words' are coming next, and you can then adjust positions as needed. Which position in which to best 'say' these upcoming 'words' starts to become apparent after awhile.

 

[Timmah]

As far as I'm concerned, I perfer sheet music for that very reason. It's up to me as a player to choose where I play a note, and I find tabs often choose a rather stupid location. If it makes sense to me to play on the 1st fret of the A string as opposed to the sixth fret of the E, then I'll play it there. Lines and dots leave that stuff up to the player's judgement, allowing them to "place" their fingerings in a way that makes playing the line easy.

 

[quickfix]

As far as I'm concerned, I perfer sheet music for that very reason. It's up to me as a player to choose where I play a note, and I find tabs often choose a rather stupid location. If it makes sense to me to play on the 1st fret of the A string as opposed to the sixth fret of the E, then I'll play it there. Lines and dots leave that stuff up to the player's judgement, allowing them to "place" their fingerings in a way that makes playing the line easy.

I agree, and your example keeps it in the same register. If the player's choice takes it out of the register for the note written, then they may want to think twice as it could change the timbre of the piece being played.

This is precisely why I wanted to learn to read notation vs tab. It's all about choice.

 

[bholder]

As far as I'm concerned, I perfer sheet music for that very reason. It's up to me as a player to choose where I play a note, and I find tabs often choose a rather stupid location. If it makes sense to me to play on the 1st fret of the A string as opposed to the sixth fret of the E, then I'll play it there. Lines and dots leave that stuff up to the player's judgement, allowing them to "place" their fingerings in a way that makes playing the line easy.

I'll take the tab for learning the part, then rearrange fingerings to suit. I still haven't learned to sightread on bass, even though I played clarinet, bass clarinet, and contrabass clarinet all the way through school (those all use the treble clef in Bb, transposed, though).

I do have one complaint about most tab - often has no indication of the rythym. I guess I should get music that has both, to get better at normal reading.

 

[bholder]

I'm trying to teach myself to read bass music (as opposed to just being able to play by ear which has gotten me through to this point). I remember when trying to do this for guitar as a kid, I'd get confused by 2 things mostly:

1) The whole counting deal (reading notes and being able to count them properly) - If I know the song, I can fake that. If I have never heard it and had to, say, clap the rhythm, I'd be out of luck.

2) Knowing where on the neck to play the notes. After all, there are many positions to play all the notes.

For this post, I'm more interested in number 2 (though I do realize for bass that 1 is of primary concern as well.

Because I'm a Beatle geek and stumbled upon this yesterday from a Facebook post, I'm looking at the bass music for George Harrison's "Something". One of my favorite McCartney bass lines. (Man, how do people think of this stuff against those chords?)
([Invalid or Expired Link Removed] have a look.

My question is: If the tab wasn't there, how would I know where to play the notes on the bass?
As an example, the Eb in the first measure. Looking at the staff and not the tab, how do I know that Eb is not actually played on the first fret of the D string? As a player, I kind of look for what's closest, but in the tab, it jumps way up to the 6th fret to play that, where you could just reach over a bit and play it with your hand near the first F you're already playing.

Hope the question makes sense. It seems that tab is better for showing what is actually fretted as opposed to the notes but I'd much rather learn the notes.

With normal music notation, you have to choose how to play the line, it's all up to you. Consider it "freedom" or "extra work", as you prefer.
(This isn't just bass, pretty much true for any instrument with multiple fingerings for a given tone.)

 

[hrodbert696]

1) The whole counting deal (reading notes and being able to count them properly) - If I know the song, I can fake that. If I have never heard it and had to, say, clap the rhythm, I'd be out of luck.

Just need to work at that. Obviously, a piece of sheet music with straight quarter notes is easier to read than off beat syncopated dotted sixteenths or whatever. But you can figure it out with some effort.

2) Knowing where on the neck to play the notes. After all, there are many positions to play all the notes.

Play them at Whichever position works best for you. A musician is still a creative artist, after all, even playing a written composition. If the composer doesn't dictate a "right" choice, then you are free to interpret the composition. That's the point.

 

[Brother Goose]

As far as I'm concerned, I perfer sheet music for that very reason. It's up to me as a player to choose where I play a note, and I find tabs often choose a rather stupid location. If it makes sense to me to play on the 1st fret of the A string as opposed to the sixth fret of the E, then I'll play it there. Lines and dots leave that stuff up to the player's judgement, allowing them to "place" their fingerings in a way that makes playing the line easy.

Very Yes! It's seems tabs often use position shifts that are not essential/ergonomic. I'm not much of a reader and I really enjoy getting confused with all of the different fingerings available!

 

[LeeNunn]

1) The whole counting deal (reading notes and being able to count them properly) - If I know the song, I can fake that. If I have never heard it and had to, say, clap the rhythm, I'd be out of luck.

2) Knowing where on the neck to play the notes. After all, there are many positions to play all the notes.

Being relatively new to to reading standard notation, I relate to both of these.

The rhythmic notation is incredibly important, because of the role of bass a rhythm instrument. Faking an understanding of rhythms is just not the same as a solid understanding of the subdivisions of the beats (including rests).

Choosing where to play a note is also important, not just because the different positions have different timbres. Economy of motion is important, but being in the wrong position when you're sight reading is a problem, especially on fretless. When I see a piece of music for the first time, I look at the highest and lowest notes in each section to figure out which position I will need to be in for that section. Sight reading provides limited opportunities for looking at your neck.

 

[rtav]

I just had this discussion a couple of days ago. I can't read the staff (KICK myself...) so I'm dependent upon ear and looking at tabs for some help, but tabs are generally horrible. I spent 3 hours Sunday working on a Dream Theater song (Erotomania) because every tab I looked at did not line up with what I was hearing. So I go to youtube and watch several people play it until I can take the composite playing of everyone (Myung included), toss the tabs in the shredder, and figure it out until it is correct. 3 hours for part of the song, only about 3 minutes of music (about an hour of that was going through tabs saying "This is total crap! An E? That's a B, not an E! Let me see this one. Oh it's crap, too!")

A Dream Theater tab should be a NO-BRAINER because they personally check all official DT music for accuracy (I think Jordan Rudess and John Petrucci do this, but I could be mistaken) and DT, unlike Vai (who also checks his own published sheet music), includes the bass tab. Problem, is our drummer has the official DT bible and I had to get it finished before rehearsal this week, so I couldn't get to it. I have since checked it and what I'm playing is 100% correct (according to the official music) and what I'm hearing/seeing - although what I'm hearing is dicey with Myung because his bass has a way of never making it into the mix. LOL

So I went on a Fbook rant, telling people that they SHOULD learn to read the staff to save them tons of wasted time with generally piss poor tabs, and besides that it opens up avenues that would otherwise be closed to them.

However, notes written on a staff are not necessarily anymore accurate than a tab - like anything else in life, it all depends on who wrote it and checked it.

Generally, though, the sorts of tabs floating around on the web are virtually useless (I have found some good ones, but they are the vast exception). If you can piece enough of them together, you might be able to get an approximation (let your ear decide), but there is no substitute for reading the staff.

 

[barrywomb]

A lot of sheet music is wrong. A lot of tabs are wrong. I usually don't rely on them at all. Never have.
I am also a " by ear player".

So it's basically that the tab is ONE way of doing it. If you've go the sheet music (or whenever you figure out a part) it's basically up to the player to play it however it works for them. That makes sense and kind of answers the question.

I'm a relatively new bassist and playing bass in 2 bands, soon to be 3. I'm finding that in between shows, I'm struggling to remember parts or, rather, keeping them straight. I'm wanting to learn to read so that if I get stuck when rehearsing these, I can just have a look at my own notation and go "Oh yeah, that's how I played that when I learned it". If I had one band to work with, it'd be much easier, but there are about 60 songs between all of them and many have distinct parts. For the first two bands, I'm content to keep that in my memory. For the new band, I want to have a way to remember these until we're playing them so much that they're automatic.
And yeah... I practice a ton, so they'll get committed to memory eventually. Just looking to broaden my skills and be a better musician.

 

[RustyAxe]

I'm not a great reader but I can tell you that as you get better at it, groups of notes start to take on a 'word' quality in the same way that letters in the alphabet do. You start to read ahead a bit and see which 'words' are coming next, and you can then adjust positions as needed. Which position in which to best 'say' these upcoming 'words' starts to become apparent after awhile.

Never thought in terms of "words" (I think in patterns and shapes), but this is pretty much right on the money.

 

[micahwc]

I prefer sheet music to tab personally. I've noticed that a lot of tabs seem to be poorly done in that they use fingerings for notes that could more easily be done elsewhere on the fretboard. Personally, I don't really think it matters which you play; a B flat is the same whether it's on the first fret of the A string or the sixth fret of the E string; it may have slightly different tonal nuances but the vast majority of people wont be able to hear the difference. The real difference between the two fingerings is where its located in relation to the other notes you have to play. Personally, I play a lot of open strings where tabs call for 5 fret notes; it generally makes the song easier and more comfortable to play.

I have also read some tabs that looked really difficult until I realized you could play the same notes in a much more efficient and easier way by playing them in different positions. Because I have a strong foundation in reading sheet music I look at the note on the tab and convert it to its actual name; then I figure out where I want to finger that note on the fretboard rather than have it dictated to me on the tab.

Most any begining bass guitar instructional book will cover how to read music and there are probably lots of free resources on the internet that will show you how to count time and rythm in sheet music. Start slow and work your way up to doing more complicated music. It's an important skill to develop that will make you an all around better musician.

 

[Joce]

That might help you regarding rhythm:

 

[nysbob]

My advice to anyone starting out would be to avoid tabs. Without rhythm it's not an acceptable method of conveying a musical idea. I'd also bet Jeff Berlin would agree with that.

 

[barrywomb]

I...

Most any begining bass guitar instructional book will cover how to read music and there are probably lots of free resources on the internet that will show you how to count time and rythm in sheet music. Start slow and work your way up to doing more complicated music. It's an important skill to develop that will make you an all around better musician.

Oh, totally. I am reading all I can online and the timing thing will come. Eventually. it's just always been the thing that's not gel'd easy for me.
And YES, I'd like to avoid tabs. I'd just rather learn to read properly. No offense meant to anyone that uses tab.

 

[Tim Henagan]

patterns, patterns,patterns!!!!

 

[mebusdriver]

Regarding position of the notes being played. I was taught look at the sharps or flats that are listed at the beginning of the tune or section to let you know what key you'll be playing in and that will give you an idea of where you should be on the neck. So if the songs is in Ab, you typically wouldn't be playing in the first position because your root would be lower than your open A string. So you'd move your root to the 4th fret and that will help you get around the tune a little better.

Rhythm is always tough. Check out the bpm that's listed and the time signature and it'll give you an idea of how fast or slow the tune will be played. Recognizing rhythm is hard and Imo takes the most work. Quickly recognizing different rests and dotted notes will take some practice. I have books that are solely rhythm based exercises with parts listed to work on just that.

Also, there are tons of different preaches to how to actually read the notes. Obviously, knowing exactly note on the staff is important. But as you move and improve you will start to recognize intervals as they are listed on the staff. So instead of reading note for note and thinking a, b, c, D, e, f yadda yadda. You'll see intervals like 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on. That approach also takes some work. However, it makes you think a lot less about following note for note and let's you focus a little more on your position. It's especially helpful in jazz tunes where you're playing written walking line.

 

[static0verdrive]

Most tabs are wrong, and many are very wrong. I had the same question (your second one) for my teacher, and I liked his answer:

Focus on the scale shape/positioning for the chord being played at that moment (major scale with middle finger on root note for a major chord, minor scale / index finger on root for minor chord). The note you need to play should fall under your fingers there somewhere. That's the most simple way to start to think of it, but then you'll quickly realize you need to be reading a couple of notes ahead to get your hand to where it needs to be in time (rather than late).

It really helps to think of each note you're supposed to play in terms of intervals of the chord... If it's Em and you're to play a low E, it's the root, or 1 of that chord. If the chord changes to Am and you're now to play an A followed by E (under the same Am chord), that's the 1 and then 5 of that new chord. Thinking in intervals will speed up your sight-reading. I barely read the "note", I just look at how it related to the root... it's easy to see 1 3 5 for example because they're either all lines or all spaces.