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Reading the bass clef.

#44
Simple- read alot on bass .

How to get there faster? Write in bass clef. Transcriptions, even/especially writing scales or doing 1st semester music theory in bass clef will make your brain.associate it as its own.unique language, instead of transposing which is useful but inefficient.

Think.of rosetta stone.. It teaches you the language like a baby learns, not like an adult translating
 
#46
I still can't look at the first space on the bass clef and NOT think that it's a A and not an F! That's from 40+ years of treble clef reading only. It's a hard habit to break.

I read this technique on another forum that I'm going to try:

"Think of the bass and treble clefs as one big combined 11-line 'superclef', with middle C on the 6th line that resides between the clefs."
 
#47
the only clef that I find hard to read his the Ut clef or Do or tenor clef if you prefer.

That b*****d move a lot in the ledger ... but it is part of reading music, especially cello music.


Reading comes easier when you read a lot, every day, in all the clef. There is no shortcut to that.
 
#50
Kevin Hamler said:
I still can't look at the first space on the bass clef and NOT think that it's a A and not an F! That's from 40+ years of treble clef reading only. It's a hard habit to break.

I read this technique on another forum that I'm going to try:

"Think of the bass and treble clefs as one big combined 11-line 'superclef', with middle C on the 6th line that resides between the clefs."
Click to expand...

Thats the way to see it. We should all be aware that clefs are there to keep the notes ( or as many as possible) on the staff, so it is just a case of being able to see the relationship to realise that it is the same notes in the same order but it is the relationship to the staff that has changed, not the relationship between the notes, they get changed by a key and the use of sharps and flats.

In practicing different clefs learn the relationship of the first, third and fifth line and your brain will fill in the rest.

Because every octave the relationship between lines and space swap, so an A on a line in bass clef becomes an A in a space an octave up, before going back to a line a further octave up and so on ( it is the same if we went backwards down from the A, the octave below would be in a space, and an octave below that would be back on a line.

Also a standard bass is good for three octaves, and if you accept the principal then you just learn to apply it....in the same way piano players do, who learn to read two clefs together as well as play them together.

I do not use acronyms in teaching the staff, i just teach the diatonic notes used. They are the first 7 letters of the alphabet, and when we learn the alphabet we do not need acronyms to learn the order of all 26 letters.....after all it is simply a case of alternate letters, or every other one.
The relationship to chords and stacking 3rds becomes more apparant when they are dealt with, as does playing notes above or below the staff, you learn to see the relationship between the notes rather than any lines or spaces. Acronyms i find is another level to interfere with the actual learning of what is a simple idea.

A great exercise is to recite the diatonic names backwards and forwards. It is quite usual for those that struggle with reading to struggle to do this......after all if you cannot recite the diatonic notes backwards/forwards starting from any point then you will struggle to relate that to the instrument as you do not have that thinking time to hesitate.....music flows and so must your thought process. we need to loss the run up so to speak. So if asked to recite 3 octaves backwards from E in the key of C, the need to think A, B, C, D, E to set up the relationship that after E the next note is D, then think A,B,C,D to get the next relationship note is C, then A,B,C to get the next relationship note is B etc etc.
The ablity to recite the diatonic scale backwards and forward from any given point at will greatly helps learning to read in different clefs.
This over learned skill reaches a point that you become a better reader by a faster conformation of what you see from different areas of the brain working from an internalised learning. So if the notes you see are C E F A C without you realising it your brain has placed the notes to the staff being used, to the key being used and will work out the relationship of the the notes to confirm that they are indeed the notes you see, over time your ears learn to identify then intervals being used so you develop the ability to see and hear to reinforce the notes written.

It is a proccess that just develops, but the extent that to which it develops is on the need to use it, if you have no need to use it, then it will not develop in to a full rounded skill.

If we learn the keys and use the same process then we learn the chromatics involved, again it is about reciting backwards or forwards from any point in the key over three octaves.

After this length of time it would be interesting to find out how Joe got on.:)
 
#51
Fergie-

Thanks for that rather comprehensive theory lesson! I'm still digesting it, and I'm sure that it will make sense after a few more reads.

For me, it always makes more sense to learn the theory behind any system (music or otherwise) rather than rote memorization.
 
#52
Kevin Hamler said:
I second the Notetable software Link Removed

It's a little childish, but works really well. There are many adjustable parameters, and the professional version works with MIDI. I'm plugging my bass into one of these http://www.sonuus.com/products_i2m_mp.html and playing into Notetable.
Click to expand...

This is fantastic! The only problem is the Sonuus device picking up string noise (and my poor muting technique!) as random MIDI notes. The velocity parameter should act as a gate, but it's not very good.

Perhaps I need to pick up a cheapy noise gate pedal.
 
#53
StyleOverShow said:
Yeah, I came to Bass after Treble and have to switch my brain around.

I envy the people who played piano as a kid and learned to read both simultaneously.

Just a matter of practice.
Click to expand...
In high school, I had just bought the piano sheet music of Peg by Steely Dan so I could learn what those chords were, and this kid in my band class heard me picking it out slowly on the piano after school one day. This kid had no idea what it sounded like, hated rock and roll, only liked classical. He says, "Get up and let me try it out." He then proceeds to sight read it in tempo without making a mistake, then says, "I figured it would be harder than that." People like that just make you want to give up, you know?

But I didn't. Still can't play piano worth a crap but I learned to be a decent sightreader. I'm definitely not the best you will ever meet, but I got pretty decent at it and actually make a living doing reading gigs.

What REALLY gets you good at reading a clef is transcribing. Instead of writing the notes over music that's written already, go find some simple bass lines to transcribe by ear, then gradually work your way up to the harder stuff. By doing that, you force yourself to take time to learn what the notes are and recognize rhythmic patterns that you'll see a lot.

it's all about putting in your 10,000 hours, Joe Nerve. You may have wasted some brain cells here and there but it sounds like you have plenty left...you can do it ;)
 
#56
I've adopted a rule that i apply to myself. And the rule goes: reading = sight reading, and not sight reading = not reading.

I do read, yes but it is so time consuming and frustrating that it does not make any sense. So, what I've done is that I've borrowed loads of sheet music (cello, trombone, double bass etc), very simple and try to play the pieces without stopping at all. I've understood that stopping is a big no-no if you want to learn sight reading. What I've found a bit demanding is to remember what pitch is under my finger. Normally, that is not a major issue but if I play several pieces in a row it may be a bit confusing. I also try to play the same piece using different fingerings so as to learn the fretboard thoroughly.
 
#58
I am yet another former treble clef reader. I played alto sax back in elementary school (a million years ago) and despite the fact I haven't picked up a sax in years or done any sight reading - my old brain still sees things in treble clef.

I am even more impressed with piano players who can read both clefs simultaneously and play them perfectly.

Oh, music - my muse and devil!!


JimmyM said:
In high school, I had just bought the piano sheet music of Peg by Steely Dan so I could learn what those chords were, and this kid in my band class heard me picking it out slowly on the piano after school one day. This kid had no idea what it sounded like, hated rock and roll, only liked classical. He says, "Get up and let me try it out." He then proceeds to sight read it in tempo without making a mistake, then says, "I figured it would be harder than that." People like that just make you want to give up, you know?

But I didn't. Still can't play piano worth a crap but I learned to be a decent sightreader. I'm definitely not the best you will ever meet, but I got pretty decent at it and actually make a living doing reading gigs.

What REALLY gets you good at reading a clef is transcribing. Instead of writing the notes over music that's written already, go find some simple bass lines to transcribe by ear, then gradually work your way up to the harder stuff. By doing that, you force yourself to take time to learn what the notes are and recognize rhythmic patterns that you'll see a lot.

it's all about putting in your 10,000 hours, Joe Nerve. You may have wasted some brain cells here and there but it sounds like you have plenty left...you can do it ;)
Click to expand...
 
#59
Get some blank staff paper. Pencil in notes and then write their letter name above or below.

WRITING music is a great way to learn to READ music. Just like language, reading, and comprehension acquisition in education. Same thing.

Music students often concentrate just on reading and not enough on writing. You don't need to be composing a symphony - just any notes on the page and then writing their names. It doesn't matter how slow you go or long it takes you. 5 minutes a day for a week or two and you will be amazed at the results.
 
#60
MicceO said:
I've adopted a rule that i apply to myself. And the rule goes: reading = sight reading, and not sight reading = not reading.

... very simple and try to play the pieces without stopping at all....
Click to expand...

I think too many non-readers assume that your 'rule' is actually the truth, when in reality the benefits of understanding notation (esp rhythm) kick in long before one reaches the fluent sight reading level.

I see the value as your personal approach, but to noobs out there is sounds like a recipe for frustration.
 

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