Double Bass Realist failure?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I have an old Realist that I had been trying for the last couple of weeks. It was sounding really nice, right up until the minute it didn't sound at all. The output level was REALLY hot and then nothing. A continuity test shows that it's shorted across the +/-.

So, is that it?

I had used this pickup twice before and it sounded nasal with low output both times. Frankly, I was surprised at how good it was working. Maybe the fit was good or it was rallying just before death. Just curious.

 

[Ric Vice]

I have an old Realist that I had been trying for the last couple of weeks. It was sounding really nice, right up until the minute it didn't sound at all. The output level was REALLY hot and then nothing. A continuity test shows that it's shorted across the +/-.

So, is that it?

I had used this pickup twice before and it sounded nasal with low output both times. Frankly, I was surprised at how good it was working. Maybe the fit was good or it was rallying just before death. Just curious.

Greg,
There's an old thread on TB about this. The short version is that Realists will only last 5 years. Sam Findlay who works for David Gage posted this to that thread. The Realist now is only warrantied for 1 year after the date of purchase.

First, we’d like to make clear that the vast majority of our clientele DO NOT experience a drop-off in sound or response from The Realist. That being said, we do recognize that The Realist, after 5 or so years, will start to degrade gradually. As some of you have said, the pressure applied by the bridge feet is substantial and over time, it can take its toll on piezo ceramic elements. We have also decided, however, that the realistic sound the pick-up produces is a result of the unique combination of piezo size, quality, and the specific stimulation the element is afforded because of its placement under the bridge foot. –For us (and most of our customers, it seems,) the sound The Realist has become famous for is more important than durability beyond 5 years.

Why does it drop-off or degrade? Most of the evidence we’ve gathered is simple and empirical. It seems that certain bridges wear the element more intensely than others. We suspect that taller bridges, bridges that press with greater force against the top, wear the elements at a greater rate. Beyond that, we are not sure what the exact cause of the increased wear is, so we asked a couple of experts.

Rich Brooks, a piezo engineer at the American Piezo Coorporation, says, “there is a logarithmic deterioration or amelioration of a piezo’s properties over time.” Mr. Brooks says that there are many different reasons for this. He says, “[Deterioration] will be mitigated by the effects of temperature, other materials and mechanical interface.” He agreed with what we had hypothesized and didn’t see any way of avoiding the drop-off without substantially changing the element, an action that would alter the output and clearly diminish the true value of the pick-up.

As soon as we have more information, I’ll post our findings on this site.

If any of you have any additional questions, please feel free to call or email me directly.

All the best,

Sam Finlay
David Gage String Instrument Repair, Inc.
[email protected]
212-274-1322

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I'm familiar with this but it was interesting that the output increased significantly right at the end and then 'poof'- absolutely nothing.

 

[Ric Vice]

I'm familiar with this but it was interesting that the output increased significantly right at the end and then 'poof'- absolutely nothing.

Greg,
Well, you're guess is as good as mine on that one Greg. Maybe it just wanted to go out with a bang.


Ric

 

[timobee4]

The output level was REALLY hot and then nothing

Posted about it once as it also happened to me. I thought I just pull it apart separating the copper foils to see how it's built. To my surprise one of the little piezo was snapped inside it. Realist is a good but remarkably rudimentary device. Also happened to a friend and when I decided to investigate guess what I found? One of the piezo was shattered, I pulled the broken piezo out replaced it with the good one of the other and it works like new. I think those little piezo disks give up after while due to the vibration and being jammed between the bridge and the belly not to mention the constant bending force. Don't throw it out, get another if you like it and when that dies just replace the stuffed one. Not likely that both element snap at the same time.

 

[basmansam]

I have had my realist on my Wilfer bass for 10 yrs and 2 yrs prior to that on my old flatback Czech Bass. Guess I'm living on borrowed time!!

 

[Bassistom]

I've had my Realist on for at least 10 years (I can't recall when I bought it). I haven't noticed any deterioration of the sound, but then again I have used it mostly with my mic (AMT), blending in a little to 'cut' in louder settings, so I may not have noticed it.

Problem now: I pulled the wire out of the element; can this be repaired?

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I've had my Realist on for at least 10 years (I can't recall when I bought it). I haven't noticed any deterioration of the sound, but then again I have used it mostly with my mic (AMT), blending in a little to 'cut' in louder settings, so I may not have noticed it.

Problem now: I pulled the wire out of the element; can this be repaired?

I don't think so.

FWIW, I like the wood version a lot.

 

[jruberto]

Curious, a couple questions... I've had my realist (the original foil realist) installed in my DB for about 10 years.

- what are the indications that it is failing / has failed?

- is there some way to test with a multimeter & get conclusive answers?

I've noticed that the output level is super low, I don't remember it always being like that, perhaps there's been a steady decline.

Maybe mine has lasted so long because I haven't moved it at all and I'm very careful to always keep string tension on.

 

[Ric Vice]

Curious, a couple questions... I've had my realist (the original foil realist) installed in my DB for about 10 years.

- what are the indications that it is failing / has failed?

The Realist's volume will decrease significantly. It may also start to distort. On my bass, the tone quality changed noticeably on lower pitches.

- is there some way to test with a multimeter & get conclusive answers?

I don't think so, the Piezo film just degrades

I've noticed that the output level is super low, I don't remember it always being like that, perhaps there's been a steady decline.

That's what happened with mine after 4 years. I had two of them and then moved onto something else.

Maybe mine has lasted so long because I haven't moved it at all and I'm very careful to always keep string tension on.

Probably, but it's hard to say. It's different on every bass.

 

[jruberto]

Thanks, Ric!

I'm just starting to play a lot more (amplified) DB after some years away from it & I don't remember the pickup being so low-output. It isn't distorted, but does wind up hell of noisy since I have to add so much gain. Looks like mine is kaput.

 

[Kasper]

My Realist is about seven years old and I really notice the level drop lately.
I emailed Gage and they acknowledged that this a common issue. They offer a repair if possible for $85 or replacement.
They said they last six to seven years.

Do people know if this happens with all piezo pickups in time? My Shadow (underwood imitation) is lacking low end too lately. Is piezoelectic material known to detetiorate, period?

 

[gerry grable]

Greg, Are you sure it's not the amp or the guitar chord

 

[jruberto]

Do people know if this happens with all piezo pickups in time? My Shadow (underwood imitation) is lacking low end too lately. Is piezoelectic material known to detetiorate, period?

Not to my knowledge, but I'd say the realist is a special case with the incredible weight/pressure of the element being squashed under the bridge foot.

I remember when I first got this pickup I used to have to be real careful with gain & levels otherwise I'd get feedback. On a gig last weekend I had every gain knob in my chain dimed & barely had enough volume for the gig, and plenty of hiss coming out of my amp. :-/

Agree that Greg's problem sounds like it might be something else, perhaps cable related. My pickup has demonstrated a slow & steady decline over the years.

 

[jruberto]

My Realist is about seven years old and I really notice the level drop lately.
I emailed Gage and they acknowledged that this a common issue. They offer a repair if possible for $85 or replacement.
They said they last six to seven years.

Good to know, I just dropped them a line too, hope I can get a fix/replace.

I looked back in my records & I got that pickup 11 years ago, so I guess I did pretty good. Tho my bass was definitely dormant for years at a time throughout that time.

 

[jruberto]

And I just wanted to express a quick +1 on good customer service over at Gage. Getting lots of great information & fast help.

Looks like I'll be sending in my realist for replacement.. $85 if they can repair it, but a discount on buying a new one if you send in the old one.

 

[Tele295]

I've gotten a good 9 years out of mine, and it performed great at the gig last night. I will keep a close eye on it though - thanks for the heads up. Perhaps I should get a new one now for the eventual and sudden demise

 

[gerry grable]

I've had mine on since 7/7/99 and it still works fine.
Let's see 13 years x 365= 4745 days.
It cost me 186.00 tax included.
Divide.
So that's less than 4 cents a day.
What else that useful can you "rent" for $1.20 a month?

 

[cbach]

I bought my first Realist in 2000 and 8 years later I noticed that the output was diminished and there also wasn't as much definition. I ordered a new one and could hear an immediate difference. For sure, all the pressure being exerted on the pickup by the bridge must affect it over time. I have to say that the Realist is definitely one of the best and most natural sounding pickups that I have used. I started out using a Fishman BP-100 and never did the like the sound of it. David Gage has always had good customer service which is an added bonus.