Double Bass Realist Lifeline - Tips on calming excessive midrange

[Michael Drost]

Hello,

I just installed a Lifeline on my plywood Christopher bass. A back up bass. But nice for the winter.

It use to have a FC.

I am getting excessive midrange honk. Any tips for calming this down(aside from "cutting the mids)?

I'd like to get a more even "flat" sound. Don't know if it is possible. Does inverting the element do anything? How bout mounting on the threads up side of the adjusters?

Thanks!

 

[John Chambliss]

I cut the mids and boost the treble a bit. Sounds good on my Romanian Flatback through a GK MB112. There are specific instructions on the mounting for which side of the treads. Haven't tried inverting the element at all.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hello,

I just installed a Lifeline on my plywood Christopher bass. A back up bass. But nice for the winter.

It use to have a FC.

I am getting excessive midrange honk. Any tips for calming this down(aside from "cutting the mids)?

I'd like to get a more even "flat" sound. Don't know if it is possible. Does inverting the element do anything? How bout mounting on the threads up side of the adjusters?

Thanks!

Newer amplifiers like the Acoustic Image 4+ series, their Flex Pre Amp, and the Headway EDB-2, have separate high and low midrange controls, which are the key to taming midrange honk. While the FDeck Series II, will smooth out the honk to some degree, it can return if you have to play at higher volumes. Since I switched to the Ehrlund EAP and Ehrlund Pre, I have no more issues with piezo honk. The Headway EDB-2 also has a presence control that helps with honk. Just my experience.

Ric

 

[MR PC]

After reading through all the threads over time here, I decided to try the Lifeline in 2015. Most common discussion seems to be on installing the pu correctly. I decided to have a luthier do the fitting so I could be sure to have it right the first time. It took about 15 minutes including a trip to the sander to ensure a perfect fit to the bridge. He told me that it's really critical to fit to get the absolute best sound, and that you really need to take the bridge down to install or take it off. So his opinion is that it's not really as easy to flip on and off basses and have 100% performance as the Gage promo leads one to believe. I don't know myself..but I'll just leave it on the bass, it seems that it's effect on the acoustic sound would be minimal, probably at least less than the underwood element. The Lifeline sure sounded great on my gig yesterday using a headway pre to FOH, spiros, and an old ply bass, no amp. NO problem with midrange quack or pointiness..it's a very warm, fast speaking/sounding. I used the 5meg input on the pre and notched a hair of the very low mids at a medium Q. The rest of the eq was "flat".

 

[rickwolff]

Hello,

I just installed a Lifeline on my plywood Christopher bass. A back up bass. But nice for the winter.

It use to have a FC.

I am getting excessive midrange honk. Any tips for calming this down(aside from "cutting the mids)?

I'd like to get a more even "flat" sound. Don't know if it is possible. Does inverting the element do anything? How bout mounting on the threads up side of the adjusters?

Thanks!

1) I don't see that anyone asked about your amp or pre and its impedence (and I didn't see equipment listed on your profile. As with most/all piezos it helps a lot to have at least a 1 meg input impedence.

2) I doubt that inverting the element will make any difference though I haven't tried it.

3) From a follow-up post (#4):

He (the Luthier) told me that it's really critical to fit to get the absolute best sound, and that you really need to take the bridge down to install or take it off. So his opinion is that it's not really as easy to flip on and off basses and have 100% performance as the Gage promo leads one to believe.

With all due respect to your Luthier, I disagree. As I have mentioned in other threads: "I INSTALL MY LIFELINE PU ON THE THREADED SIDE OF THE ADJUSTER. That way, by simply giving the adjuster a quarter turn or so I can loosen the tension on the PU and pull it off the bridge to move to my other bass. I have being doing this repeated for about a year with no problems whatsoever.

As to the sound/tone of the Lifeline, I use it on a Shen Ply (SB80) and a Shen carved 7/8 flatback. It works very well on both. No, it's not a microphone, but it is virtually foolproof and gives a nice punchy sound that works well in live settings. I play through one of my two Genz Benz amps, a Shuttle 3.0 8T or the Contour 500 210. Sometimes with my EDB-2 but usually without.

You can judge for yourself the sound I get. Here are two clips: one on the Ply and one on the carved:



http://www.reverbnation.com/play_no...ium=facebook&utm_source=page_object_news_item

 

[Michael Eisenman]

..."I INSTALL MY LIFELINE PU ON THE THREADED SIDE OF THE ADJUSTER. That way, by simply giving the adjuster a quarter turn or so I can loosen the tension on the PU and pull it off the bridge to move to my other bass. I have being doing this repeated for about a year with no problems whatsoever.

Interesting idea, but what do you do if you need to change the height of your bridge? In effect, you now have a nonadjustable bridge. (I guess that in the past year you haven't needed to adjust it.)

 

[rickwolff]

Interesting idea, but what do you do if you need to change the height of your bridge? In effect, you now have a nonadjustable bridge. (I guess that in the past year you haven't needed to adjust it.)

Michael, you are exactly right. I had my luthier set up the bridge so it was at the exact proper height when allowing for the thickness of the Lifeline PU. My second bass (which I bought used but which had been set up by the same excellent luthier - Bob Beerman of the Bass Violin Shop in Greensboro NC - and just happened to come with the proper bridge spacing. And you're also right in that I haven't had to adjust the bridge on either bass in the last year.

 

[Ric Vice]

1) As to the sound/tone of the Lifeline, I use it on a Shen Ply (SB80) and a Shen carved 7/8 flatback. It works very well on both. No, it's not a microphone, but it is virtually foolproof and gives a nice punchy sound that works well in live settings. I play through one of my two Genz Benz amps, a Shuttle 3.0 8T or the Contour 500 210. Sometimes with my EDB-2 but usually without.

Rick,
While I don't think any of us would deny the convenience of the Realist Lifeline, listening to your clips (nice ensemble playing, by the way) to my ears it's a Realist with a little smoother edge. What's your take on using the EDB-2 with the Lifeline?
I would have to think that it would allow you to EQ the Lifeline to the best advantage. Interestingly, I've recently found out that the 20 Meg High+ setting on the EDB-2s' input impedance gets you the best timber from a piezo. I'm so spoiled at this
point using the Ehrlund EAP and Headway EDB-2, because it has none of the piezo artifacts, that I used to have to deal with. Just my take.

Ric

 

[rickwolff]

Rick,
While I don't think any of us would deny the convenience of the Realist Lifeline, listening to your clips (nice ensemble playing, by the way) to my ears it's a Realist with a little smoother edge. What's your take on using the EDB-2 with the Lifeline?
I would have to think that it would allow you to EQ the Lifeline to the best advantage. Interestingly, I've recently found out that the 20 Meg High+ setting on the EDB-2s' input impedance gets you the best timber from a piezo. I'm so spoiled at this
point using the Ehrlund EAP and Headway EDB-2, because it has none of the piezo artifacts, that I used to have to deal with. Just my take.

Ric

Hey Ric,

Good to hear from you! To be honest, although the EDB-2 provides wonderful EQ with its 5 bands, multiple impedence choices, notch filter etc, I can't say I've found it inherently better sounding than going direct. Part of me thinks I'm just trying to avoid buying more gear (like an Ehrlund EAP, or more likely even a Troll microphone. Buying and trying gear is a serious addiction/disease for me and I'm trying for the moment to be content (for a while) with what I've got. Even the piano player I often work with must be tired of my GAS as he told me recently: "OK, now that you like your sound DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING FOR A YEAR". I don't really expect I'll last that long.

After re-reading your post I've decided to spend a little more time with the EDB-2 - specifically trying the 20 Meg High+ setting (And of course the EDB-2 will come back into play If/when I get a Troll).

 

[MR PC]

"A Realist with a smoother edge" that's how the salesman described the Lifeline to me, and that is was it seems to be so far. Since I have a EDB 2 now, it's going to be a lot easier to experiment with mics. I'd prefer a lightweight 201 dynamic or even a Beyer ribbon, but if it goes well I'll pop for a high end condenser. Depends on what the mics need for phantom power. The troll is out for me right now because i just can't believe it will out perform the beauty a tried a true Beyer ribbon, Sheops or Nuemann. These companies have decades of mic design and research. Plus I don't trust the name..LOL. "What kinda mic ya got there...uuuuuha, well, it's a TROLL.

 

[Ric Vice]

"A Realist with a smoother edge" that's how the salesman described the Lifeline to me, and that is was it seems to be so far. Since I have a EDB 2 now, it's going to be a lot easier to experiment with mics. I'd prefer a lightweight 201 dynamic or even a Beyer ribbon, but if it goes well I'll pop for a high end condenser. Depends on what the mics need for phantom power. The troll is out for me right now because i just can't believe it will out perform the beauty a tried a true Beyer ribbon, Sheops or Nuemann. These companies have decades of mic design and research. Plus I don't trust the name..LOL. "What kinda mic ya got there...uuuuuha, well, it's a TROLL.

Mr. PC,
I did get a great sound from my Realist (Copper Foil) into either of my Walter Woods amps, but those little piezo artifacts were still there when you upped the volume. I think it's just an inherent problem with most piezo's, that most players
just learn to live with. Fortunately, the Ehrlund works so well on my bass, that I don't have to deal with those issues. Hard to say about the Troll, Ed Friedland's demo with the new Acoustic Image Flex, sounds incredible, so I think I'd go there first.
Just my take. The best sound I've gotten with a Realist, was into a Avalon U5, but who want's to carry that pre amp around in addition to an amplifier.

Ric

 

[MR PC]

Ed is a master and i enjoy his reviews. Very well done every time. He's in a very unique pocket in the industry I always make note that he's searching for himself for that piece of gear, that's a very good thing. It's cool that somebody came up with a mic with upright in mind..but the troll doesn't sound anything like what I think would be possible for myself if I do the research and come up with the $$. Difference between him and most of us is that he's courted for his ability to sell gear. He makes great great choices, fer sure! This guy in this clip has a what I'd consider to be a superior sound to what i've heard from the troll online. It's just my perspective.

 

[rickwolff]

Just in case any of y'all missed this clip of Ed playing Just through the Troll:

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Actually, the troll sounds kind of pickup-y to me in the clip above. Kind of an unnatural, compressed sounding envelope particularly at the front of the note. The bass sound in the Ben Webster clip is really great, IMO. I'd go for that sound any day...

 

[Michael Drost]

So....Any ideas as to what I might be able to do? Thanks!

 

[Ric Vice]

Ed is a master and i enjoy his reviews. Very well done every time. He's in a very unique pocket in the industry I always make note that he's searching for himself for that piece of gear, that's a very good thing. It's cool that somebody came up with a mic with upright in mind..but the troll doesn't sound anything like what I think would be possible for myself if I do the research and come up with the $$. Difference between him and most of us is that he's courted for his ability to sell gear. He makes great great choices, fer sure! This guy in this clip has a what I'd consider to be a superior sound to what i've heard from the troll online. It's just my perspective.

Mr. PC,
Well put, whoever is playing with Ben Webster looks to have two different microphones on the instrument, I believe they are Electro Voice, studio microphones. The one pointed at the F hole is a condenser, from that period. It's a very nice sound, with the exception
that I forgot just how hard (even with excellent technique) it is to play every note in tune on gut strings. I'm kinda glad we don't have to do that anymore. I posted another demo of Ed using the Troll into the new AI Flex. To my ears it's a nice sounding mic. Fer sure
the Schoeps sounds better, but it costs a whole lot more cash. Just my take. If you go to the 10 minute demo on the search page and move forward to 4:05 you can hear the Troll by itself.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=aaplw&p=Ed+Friedland+Acoustic+Image+Flex+Youtube

Ric

 

[Ric Vice]

So....Any ideas as to what I might be able to do? Thanks!

MDrost1

You have to get at the midrange frequency bands somehow IMHO. I'd also have a luthier look at the fit of the Realist Life Line.

Ric

 

[MR PC]

Interesting idea, but what do you do if you need to change the height of your bridge? In effect, you now have a nonadjustable bridge. (I guess that in the past year you haven't needed to adjust it.)

This is going to be a problem for me. On to the next pickup! For giggles I might try the Lifeline in the wing slot before returning it.

 

[Michael Eisenman]

This is going to be a problem for me. On to the next pickup! For giggles I might try the Lifeline in the wing slot before returning it.

It's a problem only if you put the Lifeline on the threaded side of the adjuster wheel. If you install it as most users do—on the nonthreaded side—there is no issue with fit, unless you keep your bridge lower than the thickness of the Lifeline. In that case, you can have your luthier trim the bridge leg/foot.

 

[MR PC]

Mr. PC,
Well put, whoever is playing with Ben Webster looks to have two different microphones on the instrument, I believe they are Electro Voice, studio microphones. The one pointed at the F hole is a condenser, from that period. It's a very nice sound, with the exception
that I forgot just how hard (even with excellent technique) it is to play every note in tune on gut strings. I'm kinda glad we don't have to do that anymore. Ric

The bassist is Rick Laird, house bassist at the time. I though those looked an awful lot like some EV's I worked with some in the early '80's. RE 10? Or something like that. They were used a lot in the 60-70's for field recording, friend of mine who was traveling in Central and South America making recordings of indigenous music owned them. Loved those mics. I think it would be hard to find those in any kind of useable condition now. Yup, the bass is really forward in that mix, just thought it was a good example. If it was a bit quieter it might be a more forgiving in terms of pitch!