Double Bass Realist Lifeline users... just how idiot-proof is this?

[esoxhntr]

So, after reading the Realist Lifeline thread, I'm intrigued...

I'm currently looking for a pickup for a first bass. At some point I'll start the search for that "ultimate sound", but for the moment I want something foolproof, consistent, and easy to install/maintain. Good sound always and fool proof, are more important than a brilliant sounding tweaker's delight at this stage. The bass is going to be used as a pizz jazz bass over 90% of the time, and will have an adjustable bridge. Not having bought the bass yet I don't know whether the threads will be up or down.

Would love to hear from Realist Lifeline operators both past and present, and also the shop owners operators - after all, you work with these things everyday! I promise I won't consider it a sales pitch, and would respectfully ask the same of other participants in the thread...

 

[Eric Hochberg]

The Lifeline, Realist and Underwood are idiot proof. I prefer using one element of an Underwood to the other two pickups for it's full range sound.

 

[Michael Eisenman]

LifeLine installation:

1. Loosen the strings enough to insert the pickup onto the E-string bridge leg.
2. Insert LifeLine between E-string adjuster and wood of bridge leg (non-threaded side of adjuster).
3. Ensure proper bridge position.
4. Tune strings.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 as necessary.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

LifeLine installation:

1. Loosen the strings enough to insert the pickup onto the E-string bridge leg.
2. Insert LifeLine between E-string adjuster and wood of bridge leg (non-threaded side of adjuster).
3. Ensure proper bridge position.
4. Tune strings.
5. Repeat steps 2 and 3 as necessary.

Also, the bridge leg may have to be shortened to make up for the thickness of the pickup. I suggest a professional installation.

 

[esoxhntr]

LifeLine installation:

1. Loosen the strings enough to insert the pickup onto the E-string bridge leg.
2. Insert LifeLine between E-string adjuster and wood of bridge leg (non-threaded side of adjuster).
3. Ensure proper bridge position.
4. Tune strings.
5. Repeat steps 2 and 3 as necessary.

Michael,

Yep, read that... apart from the possible necessity of having to shorten the bridge leg it looks just a little too easy to be true, so just wondering out loud if it was. Especially since I'm a total newb...

Eric,

My son's teacher recommends the Underwood, but finding one around here seems to be a bit of a challenge, and since it needs to be properly mounted in the bridge wing(s) it seems like it might be a sightly fussier design. Also, just curious, what you do with unused element... cut it off? Tape it up? Insert in the left nostril and hum awesome counter-melodic lines?

Thanks guys!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Eric,

My son's teacher recommends the Underwood, but finding one around here seems to be a bit of a challenge, and since it needs to be properly mounted in the bridge wing(s) it seems like it might be a sightly fussier design. Also, just curious, what you do with unused element... cut it off? Tape it up? Insert in the left nostril and hum awesome counter-melodic lines?

Thanks guys!

http://www.underwoodpickups.com

Check out all the info there. Installation is easy with a flat file, if your bridge wing slot has two parallel sides. I let the unused element hang. You can use tape to keep the wire in place. I know one guy on TB cut it and made two single pickups. BTW, you may like using both elements, so don't count that out until you try it.

Also, if I ever needed another one, I'd ask if they could make me a single element version… There are other single element underwood type pickups out there, just don't have experience with them.

 

[Ric Vice]

Michael,

Yep, read that... apart from the possible necessity of having to shorten the bridge leg it looks just a little too easy to be true, so just wondering out loud if it was. Especially since I'm a total newb...

Eric,

My son's teacher recommends the Underwood, but finding one around here seems to be a bit of a challenge, and since it needs to be properly mounted in the bridge wing(s) it seems like it might be a sightly fussier design. Also, just curious, what you do with unused element... cut it off? Tape it up? Insert in the left nostril and hum awesome counter-melodic lines?

Thanks guys!

I used a Underwood for years, and preferred it to the other pickups that were around at the time, mainly the Fishman BP-100 that sounds awful. As long as you don't intend to use it with a bow, then it's an easy to install, minimally invasive pickup.

Once the Realist (Copper Foil) pickup came on the market, I used that pickup for nearly 10 years, because it had a warmer sound on my bass. The Realist Life Line is a simpler design, but regardless of the pickup, the first time around, you should

have a bass luthier install it. I know many players who use the Underwood with a single element installed, but I had perfectly good results on my bass using both elements installed. A disclaimer here, I never tried it with one element.

Ric

 

[esoxhntr]

I used a Underwood for years, and preferred it to the other pickups that were around at the time, mainly the Fishman BP-100 that sounds awful. As long as you don't intend to use it with a bow, then it's an easy to install, minimally invasive pickup.

Once the Realist (Copper Foil) pickup came on the market, I used that pickup for nearly 10 years, because it had a warmer sound on my bass. The Realist Life Line is a simpler design, but regardless of the pickup, the first time around, you should

have a bass luthier install it. I know many players who use the Underwood with a single element installed, but I had perfectly good results on my bass using both elements installed. A disclaimer here, I never tried it with one element.

Ric

Certainly glad you jumped in here Ric, because at some point I wanted to ask you about "The Band", which also seems idiot proof... any thoughts on it?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Certainly glad you jumped in here Ric, because at some point I wanted to ask you about "The Band", which also seems idiot proof... any thoughts on it?

There's quite a long thread on The Band, if you haven't read it yet. For the record, this idiot couldn't get it to work well on three basses.

 

[esoxhntr]

There's quite a long thread on The Band, if you haven't read it yet. For the record, this idiot couldn't get it to work well on three basses.

Yup, read through that one last night (more properly early this morning) after going to watch a local, very prominent player. The evening taught me a couple of things...

I won't name the dude, but he plays with excellent people, plays excellent music, and sounds... well... excellent. Having said all that, I didn't like his sound particularly - a little too warm and woobly that made him a little less "present" than I wold have preferred. So here's me, an absolute no-nothing with regards to DB, having opinions about the sound of an immensely talented, well established guy with a long, long career, and tons of cred.

The lesson - as always - is to each his own. Maybe one day the gentleman in question will hear me play and come here to comment on how bad my sound is... likely not, I'm sure he has much better things to do, like practice... anyways, there is no magic bullet, no one size fits all, it is a question of trial and error and getting what works for you. Confirmation of he lesson is to be found in reading the pages of posts regarding the various pickups, some wildly varying opinions to be found. Who's to say who's right, or wrong, or - more likely - if everyone is right given their own situation...

The solution is very simple - start with an easy to install, moderately priced, reasonably well-regarded pickup, and live with it until I know a bit more about what I'm doing, then use the classifieds here to experiment until I come up with exactly "that" sound. Same sort of thing I've been doing with electric bass for years.

So I'll go with either a Planet Wing, or Full Circle, or Underwood, or some kind of Realist, or maybe even The Band, and keep at it until I find tonal nirvana. Sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

Having said all that, I didn't like his sound particularly - a little too warm and woobly that made him a little less "present" than I wold have preferred.

From room to room, night to night (basses aren't necessarily consistant), backline to backline, soundman or not, none of us knows precisely how we sound from the audience perspective.

 

[neal davis]

They are all very easy to work with, I have used all of the pickups and am currently using the life line. I prefer it's sound and ease of installation on my Remivable neck upright.

 

[Treyzer]

From room to room, night to night (basses aren't necessarily consistant), backline to backline, soundman or not, none of us knows precisely how we sound from the audience perspective.

I'll give a hearty Amen to that and plus 1,000

 

[esoxhntr]

From room to room, night to night (basses aren't necessarily consistant), backline to backline, soundman or not, none of us knows precisely how we sound from the audience perspective.

Agreed - often what we are hearing on stage is a vastly different experience from what the audience is getting. Having said that, this is a pretty familiar room for this particular player, so if he's going to have a handle on his sound in any room it will be that one I would think. I've played in there a number of times, it's not too complicated a room since guys bring in their own gear, and I don't think it's that hard a room to get your sound in. Again, I have ZERO upright experience, I just think that I would be trying for a slightly different sound.

Also, my head may be completely up my a$$

 

[esoxhntr]

They are all very easy to work with, I have used all of the pickups and am currently using the life line. I prefer it's sound and ease of installation on my Remivable neck upright.

The Lifeline is the one I'm leaning towards. PM coming...

 

[Ric Vice]

Certainly glad you jumped in here Ric, because at some point I wanted to ask you about "The Band", which also seems idiot proof... any thoughts on it?

Esoxhntr,
Well, I had it on trial for a couple of weeks. On my flatback bass, it sounded very good, and was easy to install and remove from the instrument . One point I should make here, there aren no "idiot proof" pickups. My rule of thumb is to try and find someone that uses
the pickup, and test it out on your bass, that's the only way you'll know for sure.

Ric

 

[Ric Vice]

The Lifeline is the one I'm leaning towards. PM coming...

I don't think you can go wrong with this choice, especially since you'll be able to use the bow.

Ric

 

[esoxhntr]

I don't think you can go wrong with this choice, especially since you'll be able to use the bow.

Ric

Yup, that's what all the research led me to believe - relatively easy to install, no really negative opinions (lots of positive), and according to most an acceptable bow sound. Reasonable cost at $200, and if worst comes to worst, later I can augment it with a mic and mixer/pre, or replace it with another pickup, then sell it or use it on a backup bass, etc., etc. Thank goodness I'm pretty much done with the gear search on the electric side - trying to gear up for both DB and BG would likely end up with white coats, butterfly nets, and padded walls being involved...

 

[esoxhntr]

I don't think you can go wrong with this choice, especially since you'll be able to use the bow.

Ric

Also, as per your advice, it will be installed the first time by a luthier.

 

[marchhare37]

I've been using the lifeline for about 5 months, and have been very satisfied so far. installation was very simple, with the exception of the 1/4" jack. I didn't like the idea of taking the g string off just to install, so I rigged it up with some rubber washers, bolt, and nut through the string hole, which is working just fine.

a big advantage I see already is that the pickup element is in a durable location. with my previous underwood setup, there was always the odd chance that one or the other element could be pulled or bumped slightly, which can cause major tone differences. especially with changing weather and wood expansion/contraction, the bridge wing elements could go from snug to not-so-snug rather quickly. that in itself didn't seem to affect the tone much, but if it coincided with any sort of bump of the cord, like when cleaning rosin off the bridge, I'd have to try to monkey with it.

no such issues with the lifeline. that sucker isn't going to move unless my whole bridge undergoes some serious trauma, which ain't gonna happen because bridge protection is as instinctive to me as protecting the family jewels...

did my first bridge spring time bridge lowering, and it was no more difficult to turn the bridge adjusters than normal.

its also very inconspicuous, for all those who don't want your classical friends knowing that you drink beer and hang out in dive bars.

and the tone is excellent for my bass. deep and woody like the traditional realist, but more high end, definition, and more gain. I still find myself needing to bring up the high end to get some definition in louder situations. I much prefer the midrange tone I get from this as opposed to the trad. realist or underwood. the underwood gave me a bit more of the juicy low end (A string on down) without worrying about the sub lows (35 hz and less). the lifeline feels like it has that same realist sub bass presence, but if I miss the E string punch of my underwood just a little.

very high feedback tolerance, I can typically play with loud drummers and rock bands without too much issue, although the louder it gets, the more the tone is compromised.

I also do quite a lot of switching from arco to pizz, and both the tone and the gain need only minor tweaks to make them even and souding good. I roll off a bit of the highs and bring the gain down slightly when using the bow, but in a pinch when I don't have my pedal (radial bassbone) I can absolutely get by with a bit of arco on my pizz settings.

overall quite satisfied and would say it would definitely fit into your "idiot proof" guidline.

hope that helps!