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Reasonably Priced Source for Carbon Fiber Rods?

#42
Roxbororob said:
Sorry to be late to the party but I just placed an order with these guys:
24K Carbon Tow
Has anybody tried them?
Click to expand...
Nah. I went sketch-tastic on sleaze bay, bought what was supposed to be 2400 meters and was probably 2200 meters after the sketch-factor for less than twice what they want for 250 yards. But that's the way I'm wired...

Having rolled a bunch of short pieces for the build-off prizes, I have a better understanding of where the high price for short chunks comes from - it's labor and shipping.
 
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#43
Yeah, Fibre-Glast is a top resource for all kinds of fiberglass and carbon fiber products. They also have many specialty epoxies and resins.

I've bought my rolls of carbon fiber TOW on ebay. They've been made by Hexcel, who I believe is the main source manufacturer of carbon fiber here in the US.

The 24K size TOW is a fairly wide strip, but it should be fine for neck reinforcement. The original roll that I used for about 20 years was 6K size. These days I'm using 12K. For my normal neck back strap reinforcements, for preventing ski-jumps, I used to use 4 strands of 6K. These days, I use two strands of 12K. If I has 24K, I'd just use a single strand. The 24K TOW is a flat ribbon about 5/16" wide. If you twist it up, it becomes a round cord about 1/8" diameter. If you need a smaller size for some particular repair, you can pull apart the 24K TOW into two smaller approx 12K strips.
 
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#44
Hmmm. It's been about 8 years since I bought my current roll of CF TOW. I did some quick searching, and there's hardly any of it on ebay and Amazon these days. At least not the big, relatively inexpensive spools.

In my quick search, the best distributor source I saw was CST Composites Store. Here's their page on CF TOW:

Carbon Fiber Tow | Page 1 of 1

They sell small bundles and full spools of all the common sizes.

Note the dramatic reduction in cost when you buy a spool vs a small bundle: A package of 100' of 12K is $12.55, while a 4 lb spool (which is 7500') is $170.

I remember paying around $40 for a 4 lb spool of surplus stock on ebay back around 2010. At my current level of neck production, I'm using it at maybe 200' per year. About 2' per neck. At this rate, this spool will last me 37.5 years!
 
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#45
HaMMerHeD said:
Bee tee dubs, this is the router bit I use to route a channel for LMII's pultruded carbon fiber tubes:

Roundnose Bit, 1/4" Shank, 1/4" Cutter Dia. | Grizzly Industrial

It's the same bit i use for routing round-bottomed slots for BBG truss rods and StewMac's low-profile truss rods. Fyi, I use loctite 5 minute epoxy to hold the CF tubes in the slots, and fill in the gaps.

For those truss rods, I switch to a 3/8" round nose bit for the end-bit where the adjustment assembly is. This one:

Roundnose Bit, 1/4" Shank, 3/8" Cutter Dia. | Grizzly Industrial
Click to expand...

Hey HaMMerHeD,

I've been researching around a bit as my next necks I'm going to experiment with making them thin, and think the LMII pultruded fiber tubes at least are a cost saving option.

These ones, Paired up with the first Grizzly bit you listed, or one like, I think would work good.

I was considering .375" (3/8) one since I had that size bit and tried seeing what it would look like on a scrap of maple, and wowza....too wide.

If Harry Fleishman says they should stock them, I guess that's a no brainer :)

I checked out Dragonplate and but the minimum order pushed me off of that option.

CF TOW is a possibility once I get around this phase in the wood shed.

Thanks!
 
#47
Bruce Johnson said:
Tom (b3e) asked about using my method of reinforcing necks with carbon fiber TOW; how deep and wide should the slots be for embedding the TOW down in the neck.

Think of the carbon fiber TOW as being a cable that you are stretching along the back of the neck to reinforce it. Like you had put a length of steel cable and a turnbuckle right on the back of the neck, screwed down at both ends and tightened up taut. That's what you are doing. When the neck tries to bend forward, the tight cable resists and holds it back.

So, the little bundle of TOW should be buried down deep in the neck, close to the final back surface. Ideally, within 1/8" of the back surface, if you dare. That requires some engineering and measuring to make sure that you know where that final back surface is going to be, in relation to the top surface of the neck blank.

The bundle of TOW is actually quite small in diameter. I normally use two strands of 12K TOW or 4 strands of 6K TOW. Either combination is less than 1/8" diameter. You could theoretically cut a 1/8" wide slot, tapering from around 1/2" deep to 3/4" deep. Stuff the TOW and epoxy down in the bottom of the slot, with an 1/8" thick piece of maple filling the slot above it, up to the surface. But it's tricky to cut a slot that narrow and deep.

It's more practical to rout a 1/4" wide slot to that depth. And it's easier to get the epoxy and TOW positioned down in there. Fill the slot with a 1/4" thick strip of maple.

The slot and filler strip can be whatever width you want, for you to be able to cut it. As long as that little bundle of TOW, saturated with epoxy, is down deep in the neck. That's where it will be most effective.

If you are using a single truss rod, and want add this TOW reinforcement, rout a slot that's wide enough for the truss rod (1/4" or whatever), but rout it down to the full depth, within 1/8" of the final back surface. Lay in the epoxy and TOW down in the bottom and clamp in a maple filler strip above it. After that's cured, trim off the filler strip flush with the surface, then re-rout the slot for the truss rod, to whatever depth it needs to be. That puts the carbon fiber centered on the neck, down below the truss rod. That's much more effective structurally than a pair of bars on either side of the truss rod. And much less weight. The carbon fiber TOW installation adds hardly any weight to the neck.
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Well thought out thanks
 
#48
I worked an yachts for 18 years and worked with all manner of nasty products the best resin is west system hands down, they have a vast range of different additives for different temperature ranges and for example microballon fillers to add, and basically anything you can imagine they have it the story is 3 brothers started making racing sailing boats, for both water and ice they worked next door to a Dow chemical plant and came up with west system for their boat building, there’s a book on methodology I think it’s Goudion brothers guide to... its a free download on the west site.
With regards to paint awl grip is gold stand in yachts same stuff that’s used in aviation really nasty it shines beautifully.
I am doing a build at the moment with Epifanes varnish as a finish, I will let you know how it goes.
Unfortunately I bought carbon rods ha ha
 
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#50
Gilmourisgod said:
Im on my second build with CF rods, in both cases necks stayed almost dead straight with DA trussrod at "neutral", very little adjustment needed for relief. So far very stable too, works for me!
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Would you mind sharing your spacing for the rods with me ? I have two rods and a DA truss rod coming from BBG, the other thing I was wondering about is do the rods need to be seated in anything I had thought of using a caulk of some sort.
Glad to hear that the rods worked out for you, I have ideas about building a case from carbon in the future using the skin on frame method from canoe/kayak building cheers h
 
#51
I used two rods, 3/16" either side of a double action rod. The rods are 1 /8" x 3 /8" deep, i epoxied them in with the neck clamped dead straight. The truss rod just has a little silicone caulk at each end. The cf rods are shorter than the neck, so i biased them towards the nut.
 
#52
Many thanks for that much appreciated the taper up to the nut makes sense, I had mentioned the thread to my brother who sails and is an architect his first reaction was would it work with a piece of carbon or similar rope for example the 5mm Kevlar is rated for 5000 pounds, here is a link to a supplier, I live in NYC where you can buy this buy the foot retail at paragon sports or RIA I think I will check here’s the mail order link there may be better sites [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#53
This would seem to be the latest from dragon there are other sides just surch DTube
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upload_2019-2-13_8-27-19.jpeg
 
#54
Wow, Pricey! The problem everybody has with Dragonplate is the $50 minimum order, unless you are a pro Luthier cranking out basses, kinda hard to justify. $95 for a carbon tube seems stupid overpriced, but maybe it's really worth it? I really wasn't sure about CF rods at all, but I'm a believer now.
 
#55
The price is what it is I am in for about $600-700 on my build just in parts and wood I hope to have an instrument that would be about $2000-3000 when finished so an extra $95 is not a big deal, routing a tapered channel would be fun, and the sound may be crap if it was proven like say carbon bike frames it would be one thing but to invest so much in an experiment seems well challenging, maybe worth making a neck with a wooden heel and headstock that fits into the carbon and then laminate the extra thickness onto the carbon blank, I have lots of free time maybe I will try it after I have finished handwinding some pickups and knitting a peace blanket to keep 5he world warm !!
 
#57
Those D-shaped CF tubes are made primarily for acoustic guitar builders. The idea is to inset that alone, down the middle of the neck, with no truss rod. Use a soft, light weight wood, make it really stiff. Hand cut the relief curve into the frets and hope you get it right. Tradeoffs.

It's relatively expensive because it's a molded part with a taper, not a pull-truded rod form. A lot of hand labor to make it. They probably tooled up to make them for some acoustic guitar manufacturer, and are now selling them separately to hobbyists.
 
#58
Why dont you guys use the TOW that Bruce suggested elsewhere in the thread?

Based on this thread I bought some for an experimental build I was doing: Converting an old el cheapo GK neck with a dual action truss rod and CF/Epoxy reinforcing so that I can string it up with Heavy Jamerson Labella flats. Im almost finished the final assembly (I can only work in spurts between real life) and will string it up soon. So I cant yet report on the results but I can say I have enough TOW left over for probably 20 more necks (or more) for $25. It fits in a tiny channel and is useful for other purposes as well (I have fixed several mic stand yokes and a hockey stick!).

Thanks Bruce
 
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#59
Roxbororob said:
Why dont you guys use the TOW that Bruce suggested elsewhere in the thread?

Based on this thread I bought some for an experimental build I was doing: Converting an old el cheapo GK neck with a dual action truss rod and CF/Epoxy reinforcing so that I can string it up with Heavy Jamerson Labella flats. Im almost finished the final assembly (I can only work in spurts between real life) and will string it up soon. So I cant yet report on the results but I can say I have enough TOW left over for probably 20 more necks (or more) for $25. It fits in a tiny channel and is useful for other purposes as well (I have fixed several mic stand yokes and a hockey stick!).

Thanks Bruce
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest that, but....I already have many times!
 
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#60
In my case, I’m getting pretty good results with standard CF rods, and basic builds are still the limit of my experience so.... it’s basically laziness and lack of advanced skills! I may try it on the next build, an Alembic inspired neck-through.
@Bruce Johnson, did you ever put up a photo montage of the TOW reinforcement process? I honestly can’t remember. :)
 

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