Reasonably Priced Source for Carbon Fiber Rods?

[Huw Phillips]

I had ordered the truss rod and carbon rods efore I stumbled on this thread otherwise I would have, I also have the limitations of living in a NYC apartment so have to refrain from to much routing and toxic chemicals unfortunately, that will all change soon roll on the carbon-Kevlar bass head to toe

 

[Beej]

I know I'm answering a question not asked, but I've had some really good success following another one of @Bruce Johnson 's thoughts, and that's to use thin aluminum bars stood vertically. I've been using 3.5mm x 8mm (filed down) and they seem just as strong, stiff and stable as CF bars. I sat on a guitar neck to test it (I'm 220lbs) and it didn't deflect hardly at all - the same as my past CF "tests" of neck stiffness...

 

[T_Bone_TL]

In my case, I’m getting pretty good results with standard CF rods, and basic builds are still the limit of my experience so.... it’s basically laziness and lack of advanced skills! I may try it on the next build, an Alembic inspired neck-through.
@Bruce Johnson, did you ever put up a photo montage of the TOW reinforcement process? I honestly can’t remember.

@b3e posted some pictures in last year's build-off (the winter walnut whackadoodle), and I posted a bunch of links to threads (including this one, but also others) in the build-off and/or prize thread from last year when I added my prize to the pile and inadvertently caused @Scoops some bad postage karma (mea culpa.) I think @rojo412 may be the first to actually use some of that that I noticed, (in this year's build) and there wasn't much in the way of photo-montage for it.

 

[Huw Phillips]

Does anyone have any knowledge of how carbon fiber works as a neck material compared to maple if a tapered tube was in a neck I imagine it would have some effect on resonance, I believe I have seen electric upright basses made with carbon, the guy who plays for PIL plays one he is also a world renowned master of all things ancient string instruments, he teaches in the UK

 

[Roxbororob]

Well here it is; finally finished last week and was woodshedding all weekend. My Frankenfunkmachine. A hodge podge of old no name castoffs. Including a GK neck stripped, refretted, nitro`d and reinfoced with carbon fibre TOW just under the back skin. Craftmanship is not on the same level as some builders here, but its mine and it sound (and intonates) just fine.

The whole point was to have a bass that could be strung up with Labella 1954 (Jamerson) flats. My MIM fender could not bear them at standard tuning. Im a Roto swing bass guy but I love these flats too. Most people seem to dislike the high tension but not me.

Well anyways success! No pretezel neck. Thanks again to Bruce for the inspiration, the TOW is very compact and I was able to install it far from the fretboard plane for maximum effect.

Pictures cause it did (finally) happen:

Edit: Typos (its not Jemersen!)

 

[Huw Phillips]

Well here it is; finally finished last week and was woodshedding all weekend. My Frakenfunkmachine. A hodge podge of old no name castoffs. Including a GK neck stripped, refretted, nitro`d and reinfoced with carbon fibre TOW just under the back skin. Craftmanship is not on the same level as some builders here, but its mine and it sound (and intonates) just fine.

The whole point was to have a bass that could be strung up with Labella 1954 (Jemerson) flats. My MIM fender could not bear them at standard tuning. Im a Roto swing bass guy but I love these flats too. Most people seem to dislike the high tension but not me.

Well anyways success! No pretezel neck. Thanks again to Bruce for the inspiration, the TOW is very compact and I was able to install it far from the fretboard plane for maximum effect.

Pictures cause it did (finally) happen:

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Looking awesome looks very old school, I am still waiting on my rods 7 days in to 2 day postage

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Does anyone have any knowledge of how carbon fiber works as a neck material compared to maple if a tapered tube was in a neck I imagine it would have some effect on resonance, I believe I have seen electric upright basses made with carbon, the guy who plays for PIL plays one he is also a world renowned master of all things ancient string instruments, he teaches in the UK

I'm sorry that I haven't had a chance to answer you; a very busy week, not much time to write.

It would take about a page to answer your question. Yes, if you add a structural reinforcement like carbon fiber to a neck, it will change the stiffness of the neck, which may or may not change the sound of the instrument. There are many different ways to reinforce a neck; carbon fiber is one of them.

This old thread has a lot of good information on this subject:
Neck reinforcement rods vs truss rod

Another old one:
Trussrod and Stiffening bars placement!

 

[Huw Phillips]

Thanks for your reply, I have had experience with carbon making parts for boats using west system and regular fiberglass seems that the tapered rods that are now available would e fun to mess with real the only way to find out is to build one I will do so once I finish up my present project, it seems there are lots of newish products that are worth trying out Nomex looks interesting

 

[Huw Phillips]

Nah. I went sketch-tastic on sleaze bay, bought what was supposed to be 2400 meters and was probably 2200 meters after the sketch-factor for less than twice what they want for 250 yards. But that's the way I'm wired...

Having rolled a bunch of short pieces for the build-off prizes, I have a better understanding of where the high price for short chunks comes from - it's labor and shipping.

Hi, do I understand correct that you would be willing to let someone like myself building a bass neck have a small amount of carbon tow, I would be very greatly appreciate this as I have reconsidered my construction method and think I will go with the Bruce method as he seems to have the most experience and knowledge in this subject.
Cheers h

 

[Roxbororob]

Hi, do I understand correct that you would be willing to let someone like myself building a bass neck have a small amount of carbon tow, I would be very greatly appreciate this as I have reconsidered my construction method and think I will go with the Bruce method as he seems to have the most experience and knowledge in this subject.
Cheers h

Huw PM me.

 

[Roxbororob]

So I played my bass last night at rehersal. I used it on the Amy Winehouse tunes and a jazz version of Fever. Wow what a fat tone from those Labella cables! Bass kept tune, all good, happy camper. I tuned up a half step and played one song just to see (didnt want to get carried away just yet) and the neck handled it fine. Strings were killer stiff at F-Bb-Eb-Ab though!

I want to share details of how I installed the TOW.
I wanted to do this for the back (without removing the fretboard) and have the CF as far away for the fretboard plane as possible. Originally I had installed a CF regtangular bar that I bought from Stew Mac. I had it epoxeid its entire length capped and all buttoned up. Done. Then I came across the idea of using TOW (compliments of Bruce). Thinking about it, it occured to me that my installation was not optimal.
1. The CF was captive along its entire length but not paticularly well at each end.
2. It was larger than needed and much of the section was not very close to the rear skin of the neck.

So out came the router and off went my order for TOW ribbon. I ended up with a slightly wider channel as a result of hogging out the earlier job but now I could install the ribbon of TOW flat with all the strands really close to the rear face. The key for me was to rigidly secure each end of the ribbon. I did this by using a longer length than needed then tapping each end with the plug I used to cap the rout. I also made sure to pretension the ribbon at the same time. I einstalled a strip of maple in the bottom of the now-too-deep rout channel to keep the ribbon where I wanted it. All doused with West Systems epoxy. Next time the rout channel will only be be about 3/32"-1/8" deep.

I made a sketch of the concept and added a close up of the neck and plug (or cap).

Concept sketch

 

[Huw Phillips]

Sir, I feel for you the process was not easy for you, sounds like you are happy with the results that is the most important thing, I am imagining the tow looks like a boot lace but kind of slippery from my previous experience with carbon and Kevlar ropes, my plan is to route a channel for the truss rod that very exact so it sits tight to the fretboard, with room for a small section of maple below, then once I have that sorted I will route a small channel for the tow and install the tow then flood the channel with epoxy and Install the small section of maple, can you give me a idea of how much epoxy the tow absorbs ? I am thinking it’s not as thirsty as fiberglass for example.
I am working on a jazz style neck for a from scratch build on a body with a maple center and ash sides with a kingwood top, today I spent sticking 1/32 kingwood veneer to pickup covers, it felt like I imagine fitting wheels to tomatoes does
Glad to here you have your bass plugged in and playing thanks for the information it’s very valuable to me h

 

[Roxbororob]

Sir, I feel for you the process was not easy for you, sounds like you are happy with the results that is the most important thing, I am imagining the tow looks like a boot lace but kind of slippery from my previous experience with carbon and Kevlar ropes, my plan is to route a channel for the truss rod that very exact so it sits tight to the fretboard, with room for a small section of maple below, then once I have that sorted I will route a small channel for the tow and install the tow then flood the channel with epoxy and Install the small section of maple, can you give me a idea of how much epoxy the tow absorbs ? I am thinking it’s not as thirsty as fiberglass for example.
I am working on a jazz style neck for a from scratch build on a body with a maple center and ash sides with a kingwood top, today I spent sticking 1/32 kingwood veneer to pickup covers, it felt like I imagine fitting wheels to tomatoes does
Glad to here you have your bass plugged in and playing thanks for the information it’s very valuable to me h

Not so much like a boot lace (although it is flat), its more like strands of hair as there is really no weave between the strands (picture bass bow hairs). EDIT: The flat "bundle" is literally as thin as a bithday ribbon.

They can easily be seperated if needed and can also be easliy tangled or turne into a mess. The ribbon of strands is hardly impressive when held in your hand. But a very impressivel strong in tension (but only in tension). Very easy to cut wit plain scissors.

Yes very slippery and yes Epoxy thirsty (how much it absorbs is hard to say, but the strands occupy little volume).

 

[Huw Phillips]

A anonymous person sent me some 12k tow enough for two necks, I bought a pack of slow Cure epoxy 30 min working time and painted a line of epoxy in the bottom of the truss rod channel fed the tow on top of the epoxy in the channel using the brush to tamp it down worked my way to the end, cut the tow and mixed a second batch of epoxy, painted this on top of the tow and used an old credit card to tidy up the edges and any strands stuck to the sides.
The neck was set flat in a vice with a spirit level and it all took about 15 mins, I used about half a tube of epoxy $3.59 rated at 2 tons, this is all thanks to Bruce cheers I am super happy, used a little of the wife’s nail varnish remover to clean up bargain at $1.75