• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Reco. On wireless system

#41
POLL: Can you tell which is the wireless and which is the cable?

Decided to put Gizmot's claim about losing the initial transient on a wireless to the test, and did a comparison recording of a cable vs a Line 6 G70 with a blind poll. Feel free to pop over and guess, and I'm especially hoping you guess and comment, Gizmot, as I do respect your opinion after all these years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gizmot
#42
JimmyM said:
The Mogamis I kind of get, even though I think gold is a waste of money, because they're fairly reasonably priced and Mogami doesn't trade in voodoo. But ESP power cords are nothing but voodoo and the guy who runs the company is IMHO a ripoff artist who has yet to prove any of his wild claims because he can't.
Click to expand...

Jimmy - forget about your bass rig for a minute. Plug an ESP power cord into your video monitor and see the improvement in blacks and colors. I use them on my bass rig and my video monitor because I can see and hear the difference. What those cords do is to get power into your amp faster and let it perform it's best. I know several major Nashville musicians and studios who have found the same thing.
 
#43
Gizmot said:
Plug an ESP power cord into your video monitor and see the improvement in blacks and colors. I use them on my bass rig and my video monitor because I can see and hear the difference. What those cords do is to get power into your amp faster and let it perform it's best.
Click to expand...
207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gluvhand and s0c9
#44
Gizmot said:
Jimmy - forget about your bass rig for a minute. Plug an ESP power cord into your video monitor and see the improvement in blacks and colors. I use them on my bass rig and my video monitor because I can see and hear the difference. What those cords do is to get power into your amp faster and let it perform it's best. I know several major Nashville musicians and studios who have found the same thing.
Click to expand...
If there was even a little bit of scientific proof that this was true, I would buy into it. There is not. But there is plenty of scientific proof that our eyes and ears can be tricked. I once borrowed an ESP cord and did a blind test with my wife swapping out cables into my amp, and we did it about 15 times, and I guessed wrong about 70% of the time. If there was a real improvement, I would have guessed right every time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jhengsman, s0c9, David Jayne and 2 others
#45
JimmyM said:
If there was even a little bit of scientific proof that this was true, I would buy into it. There is not. But there is plenty of scientific proof that our eyes and ears can be tricked. I once borrowed an ESP cord and did a blind test with my wife swapping out cables into my amp, and we did it about 15 times, and I guessed wrong about 70% of the time. If there was a real improvement, I would have guessed right every time.
Click to expand...

Jimmy - there are several videos on Essential Sound's website that explain what they're doing and the philosophical basis of it along with some real world measurements. The best bass players in Nashville are Victor Wooten and Michael Rhoads and both use ESP cables. I'm not one of the best bass players in Nashville, but I know Victor and Michael and they hear what I did - deeper, tighter low end, smoother minds and highs with much better dynamics. I saw Victor doing a product demo at NAMM a few years ago and one of his entourage brought up an ESP cord after he started and 200 or 300 people watching the demo all heard the instant improvement that it made
 
#47
Gizmot said:
Jimmy - there are several videos on Essential Sound's website that explain what they're doing and the philosophical basis of it along with some real world measurements. The best bass players in Nashville are Victor Wooten and Michael Rhoads and both use ESP cables. I'm not one of the best bass players in Nashville, but I know Victor and Michael and they hear what I did - deeper, tighter low end, smoother minds and highs with much better dynamics. I saw Victor doing a product demo at NAMM a few years ago and one of his entourage brought up an ESP cord after he started and 200 or 300 people watching the demo all heard the instant improvement that it made
Click to expand...
I am not an EE so I can't interpret most data, but if you're telling me that you can get as much as a 20 db boost with an ESP cord vs a typical 18 ga cord, I can tell you right now that you don't. I have also heard from EE's who say their tests are bogus, though I can't tell you way. All I can tell you is that I trust them over anyone associated with ESP because they have no skin in the game. In addition, I saw Michael Rhodes' video "demonstrating the differences," and I put that phrase in quotes because it's obvious that Michael plays harder and more confidently when he's using the ESP cord. ell of course if you play harder and more confidently, you're going to notice a difference! I am not the only one who noticed that, either.

But hey, if you prefer to use their cords, it's your money. Me, I'll continue on my merry way confident that there are a million other ways to make a positive difference in your sound that are proven to give you something for the money you're paying.
 
#48
Gizmot said:
Jimmy - forget about your bass rig for a minute. Plug an ESP power cord into your video monitor and see the improvement in blacks and colors. I use them on my bass rig and my video monitor because I can see and hear the difference. What those cords do is to get power into your amp faster and let it perform it's best. I know several major Nashville musicians and studios who have found the same thing.
Click to expand...
LOL, no offense intended, but that's all snake oil dude.
I read thru this discussion and laughed....
There are NEC/NEMA standards for all copper wire sold in the US. That also includes wrappings such as SJ, SJO, SJOW, SJOOW and so on. The wire in your 14-gauge ESP cable is the SAME wire that is in a 14-gauge Walmart cable. What differs is the wrapping and the connectors. Those ESP cords DO NOT get power into your amp faster than Walmart's. Power from a 110 outlet travels at the same speed no matter which cable you use. It's the SAME copper wire on the inside, same resistance, same quality, same gauge!!
I'm NOT an EE and I know that much!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: RenoDave, Jhengsman and JimmyM
#49
Bass Sludger said:
Just my 2 cents, but I've had alot of trouble recently with the 2.4Ghz wireless systems and would avoid them if you're going to play to larger audiences (especially younger, more wired cfowds). Last year, for instance, we had the guitarist for Limp Bizkit playing in front of a sold out room without a signal. Fun couple of minutes for the techs. ;) Worked fine during soundcheck without all the mobile devices around...

5Ghz should be fine for now, but that'll change in a couple of years as well.
Click to expand...
Oh.. I agree completely.. the challenge (so far) is that there are NO guitar/bass wireless units in the 5Ghz band. "Digital" wireless is mostly 2.4Ghz with some vendors claiming digital in the 400-500 Mhz and > 900 Mhz ranges.
The only thing that comes remotely close is this device that uses its own encrypted network - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Keeping the devices that connect to your network on 5Ghz is almost REQUIRED these days if you want interrupt free connections for IEM and FOH control.
Can't do that with guitars yet.. :rollno:
There's also the chance that if your band DOES run a router/network like we do.. that your 2.4Ghz bass/guitar wireless units will interfere with your 2.4 Ghz network setup, and you won't even know it.
WiFi scanners will NOT pick them up as they are not networked, but they are each using one of the 12 channels in the 2.4 gig band.
 
#50
walterw said:
that's not the system latency, that's just you being further from your amp! the latency in digital wireless is strictly about the speed of the internal computer's digital conversion, the actual wireless signal in the air is traveling at a significant percentage of the speed of light.

the sound itself is only limping along at (very roughly) 1ms per foot, so when you walk 20 feet away from your amp, the sound is delayed to your ears by an additional 20ms, enough to start sounding "off".
Click to expand...

Walter, I've known this for years, but it's amazing to me that I've seen only one other person (you!) ever mention the distance from the amp or the monitor. I've heard singers bitch about a 1.5ms latency from an IEM mix while relying on a monitor that's 6-8 feet away and a set of sidefills that can be anywhere from 15 to 25 feet away. Time is time, whether it's electronic or acoustic. Although, I do advise not getting too bogged down in worrying about the various delay situations (Tom Petty's audio guy measures the distance from the drums to the front vocal line and makes finite delay adjustments to compensate. Pretty picky, but his results and mixing techniques speak for themselves)

You, sir, have great insight. It may not be what you want to do, but you'd make a great pro audio guy!...:D
 
#51
Geri O said:
I've heard singers bitch about a 1.5ms latency from an IEM mix while relying on a monitor that's 6-8 feet away and a set of sidefills that can be anywhere from 15 to 25 feet away.
Click to expand...
Definitely something I've wondered about too!

I think it's a thing where we're well-evolved to hear sounds in the air, the delays and differences in each ear and reflections and phase shift and all that stuff are just naturally processed by our brain to tell us where sources are coming from.

With IEMs in I guess it's just different. with vocals you apparently get a comb-filtering thing from your own bone conduction "head voice" combining with the slightly delayed in-ear signal.
 
#52
s0c9 said:
LOL, no offense intended, but that's all snake oil dude.
I read thru this discussion and laughed....
There are NEC/NEMA standards for all copper wire sold in the US. That also includes wrappings such as SJ, SJO, SJOW, SJOOW and so on. The wire in your 14-gauge ESP cable is the SAME wire that is in a 14-gauge Walmart cable. What differs is the wrapping and the connectors. Those ESP cords DO NOT get power into your amp faster than Walmart's. Power from a 110 outlet travels at the same speed no matter which cable you use. It's the SAME copper wire on the inside, same resistance, same quality, same gauge!!
I'm NOT an EE and I know that much!!
Click to expand...

You should take a closer look. The ESP power cords uses multiple 20-gauge conductors in series which has less resistance than a 14 gauge cable to get power into what you're powering faster. Nearly all modern equipment doesn't store energy and is dependent on getting the current it needs as it needs it.

I can hear the difference this makes on my bass setup - and I can see the difference on my Pioneer Kuro video monitor too.
 
#58
I bought the G10 system and there is definitely a difference in sound from using a cable. Using the G10 causes the tone to be a bit duller. When you switch back to a cable it's like you took a wet blanket off your sound. I would be curious to if the higher end models suffer from this as well.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back