Reddi, 1176, 6176, LA-610, PF50-T

[JulienP.]

Hello!

For now I'm recording my Mike Lull P4 through an Ampeg PF50-T Pot DI with correct results.
Audio Interface is an UR22 but Im planning to change it for a RME UC or UCX/802.

I'm looking to improve my recordings.
I feel like any step up from what I currently own is about $1.000 to $2.000 minimum, so I wanna make sure there is a difference.
Most bass sounds I like on recordings are usually from B-15 to SVT. (Soundgarden, Kyuss (Scott Reeder is using LA-610 nowadays), or the last STP amazing tone btw )

I'm checking since a couple of weeks the following, and I would like to receive some advises on:
- REDDI vs PF50-T DI? I've read somewhere the Output Transformer is x3times bigger on the REDDI.
- REDDI +1176 vs 6176?
- REDDI +LA2A vs LA-610?

For reference, I found this nice thread from @johnk_10 from 2010.
UA 6176 vs UA LA 610 MIKII

Thanks!

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

I do a lot of studio work and honestly, most people think their bad sound is a gear problem whereas it is comes from lack of audio engineering knowledge.
The UR is not a bad interface in first place but if you really want to upgrade let me recommend an Audient ID22. A bit cheaper than the RME and as good in quality.

Magic boxes: Yes a REDDI is great, the UA Solo 610, as an excellent alternative, would also deliver the same type of tubey ampegish sound, in addition, you can also use it as a mic preamp. I often use a Neve RNDI which is a bit cleaner.

However, for the type of sounds you like, I think you may get some better results by just mic'ing the cab with an AKG D112 (they are about $200) keeping the eq of your amp a lot flatter than you would (I'd keep everything close to zero with a tiny scoop in the mids like -2db perhaps) then go straight to a great interface with good preamps like the ID22.
I position the mic at at 8-10 inches from the speaker and do a few test to get the best position for the mic.
Don't turn up the volume much on the amp. I record at quite low volume to avoid some room reflections.

When it is recorded, in your DAW use a HPF filter between 25 and 30 Hz to clean up the lows. Make sure that every other instrument that is not a bass or a kick drum has a HPF between 80 and 120 Hz to make room for the lows and avoid frequency overlap.

In my experience a mic'd bass is easier to mix but most people make the mistake of adding too much bass on the eq when they record, hence the poor results.

So my gear recommendation:
AKG D112 + ID22 = $700
Then learn more everyday

 

[JulienP.]

I do a lot of studio work and honestly, most people think their bad sound is a gear problem whereas it is comes from lack of audio engineering knowledge.
The UR is not a bad interface in first place but if you really want to upgrade let me recommend an Audient ID22. A bit cheaper than the RME and as good in quality.

Magic boxes: Yes a REDDI is great, the UA Solo 610, as an excellent alternative, would also deliver the same type of tubey ampegish sound, in addition, you can also use it as a mic preamp. I often use a Neve RNDI which is a bit cleaner.

However, for the type of sounds you like, I think you may get some better results by just mic'ing the cab with an AKG D112 (they are about $200) keeping the eq of your amp a lot flatter than you would (I'd keep everything close to zero with a tiny scoop in the mids like -2db perhaps) then go straight to a great interface with good preamps like the ID22.
I position the mic at at 8-10 inches from the speaker and do a few test to get the best position for the mic.
Don't turn up the volume much on the amp. I record at quite low volume to avoid some room reflections.

When it is recorded, in your DAW use a HPF filter between 25 and 30 Hz to clean up the lows. Make sure that every other instrument that is not a bass or a kick drum has a HPF between 80 and 120 Hz to make room for the lows and avoid frequency overlap.

In my experience a mic'd bass is easier to mix but most people make the mistake of adding too much bass on the eq when they record, hence the poor results.

So my gear recommendation:
AKG D112 + ID22 = $700
Then learn more everyday

Thank you, these are very nice recommendations!

The main reason for moving from UR22 to RME is for reamping. UR22 does not have enough outputs for reamping.
Chain would be bass->(eventual REDDI/LA-610)->Interface audio->recording dry signal.
And during the weekend reamping my PF50-T.
Of course I can start with getting a new audio interface, and from there see if a REDDI/LA-610 would still be necessary.

RME is very pricey, and that's why it's been weeks i did not pull the trigger yet. I'm going to look into ID22/ID44 as an alternative, and the Audient Sono (no reamping box needed for this one, still need to check if the preamp/converter are different).

I'm very happy with my PF-50T DI, it's funny you use the word "magic box". I might be expecting too much from another DI/Preamp.
And I've checked the D112 it's true that it seems to be getting the frequencies I'm sensitive to.

btw, do you have any recommendation for studio monitors, I went to listen to some last weekend, and for the price/quality the Focal Shape/Focal Twin seem very correct.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

The issue with studio monitors is that if you don't really have a room with bass traps and acoustic treatments, there is no point in breaking the bank. Yamaha HS7s are very nice for the price. If you start getting some high end monitors then make sure you also have a treated room so that you can use them to their potential. Also, if your room is not treated, it is better to mix at relatively low volume. I use acoustimac bass traps. They also look badass.

Keep i mind that mixing in an untreated room will often give you the impression your mix lacks bass and makes you over-accentuate the bass frequencies. If you can't get a room with acoustic treatment, I recommend to mix with a combo of decent monitors and double check your mix with great quality headphones like the Focals.

On the DI vs Mic tracking topic, most of the work I do is for pop, country or reggae tracks (I recently moved from the US NorCal country side to the Caribbean). For those, I use the RNDI into a Summit Audio tube preamp. If I am asked to record a rock track I prefer mic'ing my amp and record a DI'd track with some dirt on it at the same time. Then I mix both tracks. You just have to watch for phase issues when you mix DI'd and Mic'd track. It sounds a lot more legit for rock stuff.

 

[JulienP.]

I found the Focal Shape 65 (very much in your face) or Solo (maybe a bit bass lacking for the Solo) very good for bass tracking.
I found that the Yamaha HS8 had too much bass going on, and the Presonus E8 to be correct for the price.
What I noticed is the price was a correct indicator of the quality.
But you are correct, i've read countless times that it does not mean much without correct room treatment.
For my personal use, i will look into the HS7.
I also noted your advises on recording.

Thank you so much for taking the time! I learned a lot today

 

[DirkP]

...cause you mention the 1176. I have a Warm Audio 1176 clone and - for me - it is the most important part of my chain, esp. when it comes to recording. I own some mic preamps with a DI - the Warm Audio Tonebeast and the GAP 73 DLX. And some EQs - the Warm Audio Pultec Clone and a GAP. Besides I own the Rupert Neve DI and the "cheap" (1.600,-) SSL SiX.
I like some of this gear but the single most important one is the 1176.
Although I have some bass amps at home (Markbass LMIII, Markbass Micromark, Ampeg PF210, some very good Yamaha BB110): I nearly always use my nearfield monitors. Some cheap Focal Alpha 50s. Even if your room isn't treated, if you sit halfway close to them in the ideal listening position it sounds - at least for me - better than any bass amp. And it reduces the impact of the room much more than any position for a huge bass cabinet.

I really really liked my SPL Crimson interface. The reason I've changed it to a combination of the SSL SiX and a Motu Ultralite is simply the flexibility of the SSL mixer. Although the Crimson was very flexible for an interface.

I'm not much into effects and not at all into overdrive or distorted sounds. Although I love my Eventide H9. Most of the bassists I love have recorded direct without micing a cab and without much effects.
The most important part of my sound - for me! - are the strings (Labella flatwounds and - yes - Fender flats) and the finger techniques. Second most important the bass. I like the simple electronics of the classic Fender Jazz and Precision and what you can do with them if you listen well.

Then comes some transformer juice from a speedy compressor like the 1176. The rest I don't care that much about.

DI's are overrated, preamps are overrated. Bass amps - for me!!! - are just stage monitors. Although I find the small ampeg tube amps with 20 or 50 watts and a transformer based DI quite interesting. Never really tried them.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

Yes the HS8 are too powerful for a home studio. Most people prefer the HS7 for that purpose. The Focals 65 are a great choice I was told but I did not try them.

Bass-wise, I must admit that it is almost impossible to not get a good tone when recording with a Fender Precision. I often use mine. It has Labella FS760 flatwound strings but I equally love the tone of a Precision with rounds. If you think of George Porter with the Meters, it can be incredibly funky and powerful. I also love Kris Novoselic's PBass tone in Nirvana. You could only get that tone by Mic'ing a cab.