Sweet bass. I vote to leave as is - or "refloat" as Turnaround suggested if the finish is nitro.
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Refinish my Doug Irwin Bass??
- Thread starter Bruce Sahroian
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- refinish
Those relics are actually copying the original custom color process fender followed - not a refin. More often than not back in the day, if you ordered a custom color like the shell pink above, they would take a nearly finished guitar, possibly with paint flaws, but many times not, and paint over it with the custom color. Much faster custom ordering this way because the guitar was already built, primed and ready, just have the final coat of lacquer to cure.
Being nitro, as the finish wears the first finish color eventually shows through, like above.
Most of the time these custom colors didn't even get a clear coat, like this one is emulating.
Can't be considered a refin because it's the factory original paint job with an unusual base coat. an original W/ a finish like that would be worth a crap ton more than the best refin available. In fact a crap ton more than a non-refin sunburst too - they're worth an unbelievable amount, which is why these weird looking relics sell.
Unfortunately, say around 2000, when a picture of something like that came up online people would be frothing. Just losing their minds. Now there are so many relic versions the real thing Almost isn't as cool, you get desensitized and lose that "urgency" you might have felt seeing an original. Or at least I kinda did.
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Can you quantify that, and put number on it, thanks?
~4-5 times, or more, than a refin, and usually at least double a run of the mill original finish sunburst. Vintage Shell pink is generally a premium no matter what
Well...yes....thanks for the info, it just increases the utter nonsense level of the vintage (and relic) world to me.
So it was a cheap solution for a cheap factory built assemblage bass...something people would never accept from a luthier these days on top of that....and people are willing to pay ridiculous prices for it. Great. And then, they mimic that procedure for new basses and ask ridiculous prices for that too.
Sorry for hijacking your thread, Bruce. I'll leave it at this. My answer would be YES (if it bothers you whilst playing) and NO (if it doesn't bother ya). Instruments need to be played.
I agree with Pedullist. "Vintage" and "relic" are getting out of hand. Do what you want, based on whether it bothers you or not (visually and "feel-wise"). That is one cool bass!Well...yes....thanks for the info, it just increases the utter nonsense level of the vintage (and relic) world to me.
So it was a cheap solution for a cheap factory built assemblage bass...something people would never accept from a luthier these days on top of that....and people are willing to pay ridiculous prices for it. Great. And then, they mimic that procedure for new basses and ask ridiculous prices for that too.
Sorry for hijacking your thread, Bruce. I'll leave it at this. My answer would be YES (if it bothers you whilst playing) and NO (if it doesn't bother ya). Instruments need to be played.
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I would suggest contacting Lieber Guitars <http://www.lieberguitars.com/> ASAP and follow their advice - this is from their web site:
He is making Irwin design guitars to this day, and if anyone can contact Doug for details on your exact instrument, he's the best choice!
BTW he restored Pete Sears' Dragon Bass a few years ago after it was recovered after being stolen from a Jefferson Starship concert riot in Germany in the 80's.
Good luck and enjoy your beautiful bass!
Lieber Instruments is a guitar company founded by Thomas Lieber, a Designer and Luthier, who has been creating guitars since 1971. While still considered new in the industry, Tom became involved with some recording and performance giants. In 1974, while with Doug Irwin, Tom shared design credit for guitars going to Jerry Garcia and Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead. The following year, also with Irwin, he designed and built a custom bass for Pete Sears, of the Jefferson Starship.
He is making Irwin design guitars to this day, and if anyone can contact Doug for details on your exact instrument, he's the best choice!
BTW he restored Pete Sears' Dragon Bass a few years ago after it was recovered after being stolen from a Jefferson Starship concert riot in Germany in the 80's.
Good luck and enjoy your beautiful bass!
Hello;
All of you have very good advise!
1. "refloat"? What does that mean??? Please explain the method?
The bass plays excelent but the biggest problem is the neck length cracks in the finish!!! I had considered using very fine wet or dry (1500) sand paper on a very small block to level the cracks and then a re-polish but my experiences with painting and finishing is only with cars!! ( have painted cars for years)
Someone could explain "refloat" I might try that first to avoid a complete re-finish!!
BTW I have contacted Pat Wilkins who says that he can re-finish my bass very nicely! He is a builder and mostly finisher of and for quality instruments!
But my lack of inside knowledge and a very long hiatus makes me curious about how to fix just what I have!
I'm not playing any place, just in my garage for my dog who doesn't like it! I played in bars for over 35 years and some liked it!!!! (till a few ounces of booz was consumed) Then everybody liked it!!!! (what the hell do they know!)
Bruce
All of you have very good advise!
1. "refloat"? What does that mean??? Please explain the method?
The bass plays excelent but the biggest problem is the neck length cracks in the finish!!! I had considered using very fine wet or dry (1500) sand paper on a very small block to level the cracks and then a re-polish but my experiences with painting and finishing is only with cars!! ( have painted cars for years)
Someone could explain "refloat" I might try that first to avoid a complete re-finish!!
BTW I have contacted Pat Wilkins who says that he can re-finish my bass very nicely! He is a builder and mostly finisher of and for quality instruments!
But my lack of inside knowledge and a very long hiatus makes me curious about how to fix just what I have!
I'm not playing any place, just in my garage for my dog who doesn't like it! I played in bars for over 35 years and some liked it!!!! (till a few ounces of booz was consumed) Then everybody liked it!!!! (what the hell do they know!)
Bruce
I'm guessing a lot of people replying don't know who Doug Irwin is. The value of this instrument lies in the builder. In this case I don't think a refinish is going to kill the market value, mainly because there isn't really a market value here to speak of. That's not to say it's not a potentially valuable instrument, just that its so rare that there's not really a benchmark to judge it against. It is worth literally whatever someone is willing to pay. If you're the potential buyer and you don't like that this one might get a refin, good luck finding another one.
It looks like the original finish is in poor shape, so if you're looking at improving the condition and making this a playable instrument a well-done refinish isn't a horrible idea. Down the road if you decide to sell it, find a deadhead with deep pockets and you're set.
It looks like the original finish is in poor shape, so if you're looking at improving the condition and making this a playable instrument a well-done refinish isn't a horrible idea. Down the road if you decide to sell it, find a deadhead with deep pockets and you're set.
Hello;
I wouldn't be going through most of this if I could find Doug Irwin. Even if I did find him who's to say if he is in a position to do anything!.
I did find out about just what "re-float" a finish is and it isn't very easy and it involves using some strong paint chemicals and thinners that would allow the finish to kind of "melt" back together. (risky to say the least!!) I think I will try my idea using super fine wet paper and when I have flattened the edges of the neck only I will re polish that area. At this time it's a doable thing. You all know the phrase "everything to gain and nothing to loose"!!
I played this bass through my amp with the V-Amp Pro pre amp and the damn thing sounds absolutely better than ever!!! I even went as far as to really check the tuning and it's dead on!! So I know that there isn't any structure problems causing the cracking finish.
As I am not a purest and my experiences are with cars. My thoughts are if I re-finish this bass I want to make it way better than it ever was! in and out!!
originally I had thoughts of selling because I have another bass I like to play (G&L) (talk about a bird of a different feather) but this situation is forcing me to think deeper!!!!!!
Decisions, decisions!!!!!!!
I wouldn't be going through most of this if I could find Doug Irwin. Even if I did find him who's to say if he is in a position to do anything!.
I did find out about just what "re-float" a finish is and it isn't very easy and it involves using some strong paint chemicals and thinners that would allow the finish to kind of "melt" back together. (risky to say the least!!) I think I will try my idea using super fine wet paper and when I have flattened the edges of the neck only I will re polish that area. At this time it's a doable thing. You all know the phrase "everything to gain and nothing to loose"!!
I played this bass through my amp with the V-Amp Pro pre amp and the damn thing sounds absolutely better than ever!!! I even went as far as to really check the tuning and it's dead on!! So I know that there isn't any structure problems causing the cracking finish.
As I am not a purest and my experiences are with cars. My thoughts are if I re-finish this bass I want to make it way better than it ever was! in and out!!
originally I had thoughts of selling because I have another bass I like to play (G&L) (talk about a bird of a different feather) but this situation is forcing me to think deeper!!!!!!
Decisions, decisions!!!!!!!
That's a different story. If you're planning a do it yourself refinish I would leave it as is. A well done pro refinish would be the way to go if you are going that direction. Refloating the finish works with Nitrocellulose lacquer. I'd bet that yours has a polyurethane finish.
Like someone said previously, try Thomas Lieber for more information or assistance. He worked with Doug and it looks like he's still building. If there's anybody still around that has firsthand experience with these instruments it would be him. Here's his website: Lieber Guitars – Custom guitars and basses Either way it's a really cool bass. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Like someone said previously, try Thomas Lieber for more information or assistance. He worked with Doug and it looks like he's still building. If there's anybody still around that has firsthand experience with these instruments it would be him. Here's his website: Lieber Guitars – Custom guitars and basses Either way it's a really cool bass. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Hello;
I did send Thomas Lieber a message but have not received an answer as of yet!
Im still in the information gathering process about just what I should do. To see my bass this way makes me really un happy!
Just keep any and all suggestions coming my way.
Bruce
I did send Thomas Lieber a message but have not received an answer as of yet!
Im still in the information gathering process about just what I should do. To see my bass this way makes me really un happy!
Just keep any and all suggestions coming my way.
Bruce
If this is Lumpy Sahroian please respond.
I may have heard you play that bass and you were so good !!!
An old groupie,
Diana Gray
xo !!
I may have heard you play that bass and you were so good !!!
An old groupie,
Diana Gray
xo !!
A little late to this thread but was an Irwin bass guitar owner for 38 years. Mine was collecting dust and the love and sentiment was gone... Sold mine to move on to different tone, weight and feel.
Did you ever refinish it?
Mine was built in '79 and was finished with the same clear that was used in that era on Mercedes Benz cars according to Doug.
If you're still looking to have it refinished, send me a note and I can put you in touch with Doug.
I just saw him a few months ago
Did you ever refinish it?
Mine was built in '79 and was finished with the same clear that was used in that era on Mercedes Benz cars according to Doug.
If you're still looking to have it refinished, send me a note and I can put you in touch with Doug.
I just saw him a few months ago
Yeah, checking is awesome, especially when it's real! I say no to a refinish, unless you just can't stand it otherwise.
Don't touch it, just play it. I think a Refin would make it less desirable. Keep it origional like it was intended. What does the maker think?
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edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I don't think it was intended to look or feel like this. My '78 Alembic had the same problem and got them to refinish it. It made it much better. I think Irwin probably used what Alembic used back then, which was not a great finish, longevity wise.
