Regarding spelling, punctuation, and grammar

[-Asdfgh-]

Actually, they are exactly the same word. The difference is that spelling it with an "s" is the British spelling, with a "c" is American.

It's practice for the noun in the UK. But the versions between the two locations seem to be in a process of exchange and change.

 

[f.c.geil]

Not anywhere English is spoken. I looked in three different dictionaries at home, and did a quick search on Bing and Google. I cannot find a single source to bolster your assertion.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Yeah,
On a international board everyone should write in perfect english.

Sometimes those from non-native speaking countries have very good grammar in English.

One thing I see creeping into apparently native English speech is the 'double would'. For example "If he would have given me the bass I would have been able to play it" which is a valid construction in some languages, but in English it should be "If he had given me the bass I would have played it". In English the former is a type of double uncertainty like a double negative which ain't no good.

 

[cacophonic]

Your point is well-made and appreciated. It's reassuring to note that these concerns are shared.

Music is a means of communication, and true artistry in music results from mastery of music as language. Like music, well-written communication possesses melody, rhythm, tempo, and dynamics, all of which depend on the writer's use of spelling, punctuation, grammar, syntax, phrasing, and vocabulary. It's not necessary to be a virtuoso with the pen, but when our goal is to achieve meaningful communication between writer and reader, proper use of the elements of language is important.

What's more, writing reflects the author's estimation of the reader as well as his or her own character. Poor usage suggests that the writer holds the reader in low esteem while good writing implies respect for the reader. Usage also reflects the character of the author in that poor usage implies laziness, carelessness, negligence, and stupidity.

It's obvious that I am no expert when it comes to written language, but I do try and I appreciate others who take the time and make the effort to write thoughtfully, carefully, and with respect for both the topic and the reader.

P. S.: "Misuse" of "quotation" marks is a recent "trend" that I find "particularly" "annoying."

 

[placedesjardins]

I agree that language is fluid - always has been, always will be. People casually posting in internet forums aren't going to be overly concerned with details. Typos happen. And sometimes folks intentionally use misspellings and bad grammar to emphasize how they feel. I've been known to do just that. For instance:

"Ahmo gits me summa dat!" (I'm going to get some of that!)

However...when "lose" is consistently misspelled "loose," "their," "there," and "they're" are constantly misused, and apostrophes are used to denote plural rather than possessive, I think there's a problem. And these are just a few examples.

Centuries ago, most people probably had little or no access to standard educational resources, so they probably spent a lot of time spelling phonetically, and most likely didn't know the proper punctuation and grammar of the time. The teaching of proper spelling, grammar and punctuation was most likely available to the privileged few. Today, we have all sorts of resources at our fingertips, not the least of which is the internet. The public education system could surely be improved, but one can still learn the basics. If you hand in a report or term paper to your teacher or professor, or submit a resume to a prospective employer, he or she is not going to say, "I can easily overlook the numerous misspellings and grammatical errors due to the fact that language is fluid." Current standards still apply.

I get that this is not nearly the most pressing issue in the world, but I think being in the habit of communicating properly in print is important. Fellow TBers - what's your take on the subject?

P.S. Feel free to correct any errors in this post!

There's another thread like this that was started awhile back.

 

[Joe Louvar]

Cool, an anti-tab thread.

 

[FilterFunk]

Yeah,
On a international board everyone should write in perfect english.


Get over yourselves

My OP applies to those for whom English is their primary language. I should have been clear about that. Of course, as Asdfgh put it, "Sometimes those from non-native speaking countries have very good grammar in English." Also, if you read my OP, you'd know that I'm not talking about perfection. I quote myself:

"People casually posting in internet forums aren't going to be overly concerned with details."

I'm talking about the pervasive spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors that are all too common in writings not limited to internet postings, by people who should be reasonably well-versed in standard English.

 

[FilterFunk]

Your point is well-made and appreciated. It's reassuring to note that these concerns are shared.

Music is a means of communication, and true artistry in music results from mastery of music as language. Like music, well-written communication possesses melody, rhythm, tempo, and dynamics, all of which depend on the writer's use of spelling, punctuation, grammar, syntax, phrasing, and vocabulary. It's not necessary to be a virtuoso with the pen, but when our goal is to achieve meaningful communication between writer and reader, proper use of the elements of language is important.

Your point is beautifully made and most appreciated! It's a shame that some people become defensive when regarding a thread like this. Everyone is free to disagree, but I believe that without some underlying standards - "proper use of the elements of language," as you so aptly put it - it makes it much more difficult to "achieve meaningful communication between writer and reader."

 

[-Asdfgh-]

For non-native speakers (of any language) one of the more difficult things is to grasp concepts that don't exist in your own language, especially in terms of tenses and moods for future events that may happen, as there is a lot of divergence there. There is also great divergence in terms to refer where things are, and how close they are. In some ways English is fairly deficient in these respects.

 

[matante]

Yeah,
On a international board everyone should write in perfect english.


Get over yourselves

You mean, "an international board." That's the one that annoys me most. I'm seeing it creep into advertising lately. (And 'English' should be capitalized.)

We have one of these threads every once in a while and what I think it comes down to is not that people make mistakes, it's that people choose to continue with their mistakes after they've been corrected.

My sister uses the word "invite" as a noun and I've informed her that the word is "invitation". "Invite" is a verb. Does she care? No. She goes on telling people that she will send them an invite. I suppose if enough people make the same mistake it's no longer a mistake.

 

[Pacman]

That's "Your sew write".

Thats knot rite at awl.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Many of the non native English speakers compose far superior postings than the lazy natives.

And Titus is correct. The only reason to think practice and practise are the same is if you're used to ignoring what they tried to teach you in school.

 

[wild4oldcars]

Well today is the first time I've ever seen practice spelled with an s. Around here, it is quite common a practice to practice what you aim to get better at. I was partaking in the practice of practicing my bass earlier.

 

[Testing123]

I looked in three different dictionaries at home, and did a quick search on Bing and Google. I cannot find a single source to bolster your assertion.

The first item that showed up on a Google search of "practise vs practice": http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/practice_practise.htm

 

[matante]

Many of the non native English speakers compose far superior postings than the lazy natives.

And Titus is correct. The only reason to think practice and practise are the same is if you're used to ignoring what they tried to teach you in school.

In American English it is always spelled with a 'c', regardless of the meaning.

 

[f.c.geil]

The first item that showed up on a Google search of "practise vs practice": http://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/practice_practise.htm

If you say so. Tell you what, you keep believing that site, and I will continue to believe my reference materials.

 

[matante]

I am not too likely to believe a site not affiliated with any accredited institution nor with any reliable source, particularly when the word does not seem to be acknowledged by any dictionary.

???

The word "practise" is in the Oxford Dictionary. Look it up there and you will see "(US: practice)".

 

[Tituscrow]

If you say so. Tell you what, you keep believing that site, and I will continue to believe my reference materials.

And which reference materials are those?

In the UK : practice is the noun, practise is the verb.

In the US : practice is accepted as either noun or verb.

 

[f.c.geil]

I don't have an OED, but checked several others. That's all I can do. Even from the sites y'all are quoting, it is only a word in the UK.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Like I said. Lazy assed yanks got off the Mayflower and proceeded to butcher English. Then their descendents have the cheek to tell the rest of us to follow suit.