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Reggae Bass

#21
I feel horrible :bawl: (after asking here, and receiving many great responses) that I posted the following in what I thought was the MarkBass specific forum today. My intention was to get the opinion of people that are specifically using Markbass, and have potentially used Ampeg in the past. I was in NO way NOT taking to heart the responses you've offered already.

I'm getting close to trading my Ampeg SVT-CL for a MarkBass little Mark 800 Tube! :O

I created a post entitled "reggae bass", and the overwhelming response was that the Ampeg setup is superior. I think it's clear that my Ampeg Rig has already stood the test of time and MarkBass is still relatively young (Ampeg has more of a loyal following). My re-posting is not an attempt to disbelieve those that graciously offered their opinions previously, but I just want to see if I will get a different response on the MarkBass specific forum.

With that said, I'm going for a reggae/(2Tone) ska sound. My style is such that I tend to roll off much of the highs and high mids, and push the lows. Some might have a concern about muddiness, but I don't want to hear ANY string noise, and want to FEEL the lows through my body.

I tested the system out at GC last night and it is very nice. Of course I don't know if that little GC sound room is true to real world (my rehearsal room, indoor/outdoor venues, etc). Even though I've been relatively unhappy with the Ampeg, and have tried every "trick" in the book (technique, dialing in head, dampening strings w sponge), I'm used to it. I can't afford to try something new each year, so obviously I have a fear of ending up with buyers remorse if I go through with this trade...

I'm hoping those of you that are MarkBass supporters (especially those that have also played Ampeg) will tell me to go for it...not just because that's my wish, but because you truly feel it. If you think this is not the best MarkBass set up for me, is there an even better MarkBass head I should be looking at, in your opinion?

Thank you so much!

Hoss
 
#22
Barefaced Bass - What is bottom?

IMHO, you might find this instructive if you have not read it, especially the author's views on "bottom" and EQ. N.B., I am not advocating you purchase one of this guy's products, though you could do worse. Rather, I am pretty certain it will help you think about your bass rig(s) in a new way.

As an aside, I have never cared for old (or new) SVTs much, but agree they can be good and can be loud. However, I don't think that Markbass rig will shake the serious booty you are hoping to shake—if one can say that. The amp maybe, the cab, you will probably want more, and soon. All IMHO. :cool:
 
#23
That's a great read. Thanks for sending.

When I tested the LM III 800 Tube, they didn't have the MB 4 x 10 cab that I might be trading for, so I went through a GK 410. Even though I liked the sound a lot and it was pretty loud, I could max out the cabinet by only dialing it in to about (6) and above.

What makes a speaker do that? Is it because it's only 4x10, or is it speaker/cabinet quality? Like the previous poster said, I agree that I'm probably not going to be satisfied with 4x10. I'm sure If I do this, I'll be adding a 15" cab as well.
If I go the MB route is there any reason to not go with MB cabinets?

I'm afraid I'm all over the place now...

Thank you,

Hoss
 
#24
I have found that a top quality 4 ohm 410 and a good 8 ohm 210, made by the same builder with the SAME DRIVERS, and having a similar cabinet philosophy combine well into a 610 when I need a big rig, and give me a good 410 and 210 for medium gigs and rehearsals.

I guess I spent about $900 buying two used Epifani UL1 (light) cabs. There are lots of cabs just as good. I would say that specs are not going to tell you too much, and variations in room size and even placement make comparing cabinets in music shops difficult.

For me, I got an older 8 ohm Epifani 210 first, and it sold me on the company's products at the time. There are now probably better things to be had used, as time marches on—not to mention fEarfuls, BFM, and Barefaced.

I think you should not hurry. I also think that you should go hear reggae bands in your area that play venues like those you are going to be doing now and in the future.

I think I would look for the higher end stuff from Markbass, Aquilar, Mesa, Bergantino, GB, GK, and even (gulp) Ampeg. Finding a top flight light and loud rig used is doable. Don't rush. I think starting with a 2 ohm capable head and a really good light 410 with good low end would be a good start—it's just that your proposed trade seems unfair AND I don't think that particular MarkBass Classic 410 is all that great—the one Robbie was using is probably better.
 
#25
alexofc69 said:
I think the LM 250 may be a little underpowered for this type of music. I had an LM II and it was warm for solid state so i suspect the LM Tube 800 to be nice and the rocker should fit right in.
Click to expand...
so, you were right. MB LM Rocker works exactlly how i think it should :) drive set about 9 and gain about noon .. also a little VLE is sometime nice.. :)
I play hohner steinberger copy but with active pickups that were used in Steinberger L2. So with some pasive bass it probably needs more gain.
 
#26
sm3rk said:
so, you were right. MB LM Rocker works exactlly how i think it should :) drive set about 9 and gain about noon .. also a little VLE is sometime nice.. :)
I play hohner steinberger copy but with active pickups that were used in Steinberger L2. So with some pasive bass it probably needs more gain.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it seems like it should work for you. Had I not sold my LMII rig off during a playing lull I would probably still be using it or sold the head off for a LM 800 tube. But, im kind of glad I did as i really like my Genz Benz Streamliner.
 
#27
I'm always impressed by the love of bass comments that come from these forums...so thankful.

It sounds like the LM III Tube800 will be powerful enough to do the job.

If yes, what is the best (2) cabinet MarkBass setup? 104 and 151? In this case, is the 151 "overpowered" by the 104? What is the difference between the front ported and rear ported 104?

The ohm conversation confuses the hell out of me. Is it simply: 1 cabinet (104) = 8 ohms; 2 cabinets (104 and 151) = 4 ohms? If yes, is 4 ohms louder/more powerful than 8 ohms?

Thank you,

Hoss
 
#28
RASHOSS said:
...It sounds like the LM III Tube800 will be powerful enough to do the job...
Click to expand...

In my opinion, yes, but it is not 2 ohm capable—which can limit cabinet choices.

RASHOSS said:
...what is the best (2) cabinet MarkBass setup?
104 and 151?
Click to expand...

Honestly, mixing different size drivers has no inherent advantage. Intrinsically 15's don't go deeper nor are 10's automatically punchier or brighter. However, having two cabs with the same drivers (brand, model, and size), does present some possible advantages, and can avoid mismatch in power handling or tonal character.

The advantages vary but here are the two ways I have found useful to have identical drivers: two 8 ohm 210 cabs (4 ohm load total), or an 8 ohm 210 and a 4 ohm 410 (2.67 ohm load total). The first is flexible (take along to the gig one or two cabs as needed, and a blown speaker is not the end of the show) and they can be stacked in a vertical array, which does have some dispersion advantages (beyond my pay grade to elaborate on that).

The 210 + 410, perhaps even more flexible, relies on the fact that a 410 having the same drivers as an 8 ohm 210 will present a 4 ohm load to the amp. Read the sticky on the Amps forum, in particular the various Ohms discussions: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/a...overunderpowercabs-diy-techtalk-links-166225/

RASHOSS said:
In this case, is the 151 "overpowered" by the 104?
Click to expand...
See above.

RASHOSS said:
What is the difference between the front ported and rear ported 104?
Click to expand...
No difference, besides size of the front baffle and the resulting form of the cabinet. In the case of the MarkBass HF vs HR, I would bet if you do the math and calculate the interior volume space of the cabs, the HR has less interior volume (~1.4 cu. ft. less), perhaps resulting in less low freq response, but I am really talking over my pay grade again.

RASHOSS said:
The ohm conversation confuses the hell out of me. Is it simply: 1 cabinet (104) = 8 ohms; 2 cabinets (104 and 151) = 4 ohms? If yes, is 4 ohms louder/more powerful than 8 ohms?
Click to expand...

I think http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/ohms-faq-144244/ will help.
Read that sticky thang, Hoss! :D
 
#29
I used two 121H cabs with my LMII. I was quite surprised as to how versatile the setup was. I always found 12" to be midrange cabs. Nope, no way! the two together could do funk/slap reggae, rock, jazz or whatever you threw at it. Best of all was the compactness. If you dont want to save space then the 4x10 and 1x15 is a good setup.
As for ohms. If you were using two 8ohm cabs you would get the full 800w from the head. 400 into each cab. If you only used one 4ohm cab you would get the full 800w into the one cab. If you used one 8ohm cab you would only get 400w into one cab. It looks like the 104s are available in either 8 or 4 ohm. I would get two 8ohm cabs. Cant explain how an 8ohm and 4ohm work together. Im pretty sure its the same as two 8s. Im sure someone will chime in and help out here.
 
#30
alexofc69 said:
...Can't explain how an 8ohm and 4ohm work together. I'm pretty sure its the same as two 8s...
Click to expand...

As the http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/ohms-faq-144244/ so lovingly explains:

"Total impedance = 1/(1/a + 1/b + 1/c ... + 1/n).

When all the cabinets or speakers are the same impedance, all you have to do is add up the # of speakers and divide the resultant number into the # of ohms of each speaker. For example, three 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel in a cabinet = 3/16, or 5.333333.… ohms. That’s how they get those 5.3 ohm 3x10s btw! (The 2x10 cabinet with 4 ohm speakers mentioned above wired in parallel would have a net impedance of 2 ohms). When the impedance of the different cabinets or speakers is different, you have to use the full formula. With a 4 ohm cabinet and an 8 ohm cabinet run in parallel the formula is 1/(¼+1/8). You can’t add ¼ to 1/8 without having the same denominator (I told you this was gonna sound like school), so you have to reduce (actually enlarge) ¼ to 2/8 so they match. Then adding 2/8 to 1/8 gives you 3/8, dividing 8 by 3 gives you 2.67. So, hooking up an 8 ohm cabinet and a 4 ohm cabinet in parallel to your amp gives the amp a load of 2.67 ohms to power. "

To handle a 2.67 ohm load, an amp needs to be rated for 2 ohm operation. The LM III 800 is rated for 4 or 8, not 2.
 
#32
I think I finally "get" the OHM discussion, in a basic sense. Thank you.

I've come across a "MARK BASS 8 OHM 800 WATT 18IN SUB & HORN SPEAKER - EXCELLENT CONDITION HARDLY USED"

$200!!!!!! This seems like a steal.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

With that said, I don't see an 18IN Sub and Horn, anywhere on the MarkBass website or ANY site for that matter. It must be the Markbass Standard 151HF 1x15 8 Ohm Cab right? Anybody have experience with this cabinet?

Is this the match for me, if I go MB Little Mark Tube 800 and 104?
 
#33
Might be, though again, I'd avoid mixing driver sizes. I did it for years, and have been much happier with all 10's, all 12's or all 15's.

Since the 151 HF was discontinued some time ago, you might find service, parts, or a matching cab hard to find. However, I am sure it's a nice cab, assuming the one you found is in good shape.

BTW, this is interesting—unless you have two amp output channels like a power amp, they probably won't pair well in terms of power handling. Note the 104 is rated much higher, thus the 151 will likely distort or even die before the 104 breaks a serious sweat. N.B. they are discontinued because they didn't sell, and I suspect the lower power handling of the 151 is why.

151HF
400W RMS (AES Standard)
SENSITIVITY 100 dB SPL
WEIGHT 65 lbs
WIDTH 23.4 in.
HEIGHT 29.1 in.
DEPTH 18.9 in.

104 HF
800W RMS (AES Standard)
SENSITIVITY 103 dB SPL
WEIGHT 65.92 lbs
WIDTH 23.39 in.
HEIGHT 29.13 in.
DEPTH 18.9 in.
 
#34
Interesting, so often I've seen bassies with two cabs, such as 1x15 and 4x10. I guess I've just ASSumed that it was not a problem. If it is a problem, then I'm happy you posted. As I've stated previously, I don't buy gear very often (have had my Ampeg set up for about 15 years) and can't afford to be buying gear that's not going to perform how I would like it to.

Speaking of cost, I wonder if I should grab this 151, if it's in great condition like the seller says, just because it's so damn cheap (almost sounds too good to be true...)?

Assuming that the 104 and 151 don't work well together, how would the 151 work on its own? It's 8 ohm, and my understanding is that I want to get to 4 ohms (2 x 8 ohm cabs) to get maximum power out of the MB LM II 800 Tube. With that said, would I need to pair it with another 151, or purchase a single (4 ohm) 151 to get full life out of said cab?

Thanks!
 
#35
RASHOSS said:
...Assuming that the 104 and 151 don't work well together, how would the 151 work on its own? It's 8 ohm, and my understanding is that I want to get to 4 ohms (2 x 8 ohm cabs) to get maximum power out of the MB LM II 800 Tube.
Click to expand...

Two 8 ohm cabs = 4 ohms. One 4 ohm + one 8 ohm = 2.67 ohms. One 4 ohm + one 4 ohm = 2 ohms.

If you get an LM III 800, and if you have an 8 ohm cab, your only choice for a second cab is another 8 ohm cab. If you have that head and one 4 ohm cab, you cannot add a second cab. That limitation is why a 2 ohm capable head is better than a 4 ohm capable, IMHO.

RASHOSS said:
With that said, would I need to pair it with another 151, or purchase a single (4 ohm) 151 to get full life out of said cab?
Click to expand...

You could pair a 151 with a 151, but there are two inherent problems with that cab, IMHO: you may have considerable trouble finding a second one (they are disco'd), and they are low in the power handling/sensitivity department. :cool:
 
#36
when i think reggae i think this -

misc19b.jpg
 
#38
Jim Carr said:
Two 8 ohm cabs = 4 ohms. One 4 ohm + one 8 ohm = 2.67 ohms. One 4 ohm + one 4 ohm = 2 ohms.

If you get an LM III 800, and if you have an 8 ohm cab, your only choice for a second cab is another 8 ohm cab. If you have that head and one 4 ohm cab, you cannot add a second cab. That limitation is why a 2 ohm capable head is better than a 4 ohm capable, IMHO.



You could pair a 151 with a 151, but there is are two inherent problems with that cab, IMHO: you may have considerable trouble finding a second one (they are disco'd), and they are low in the power handling/sensitivity department. :cool:
Click to expand...

I think I hear you saying, even at the low price of $200 I shouldn't waste my time with the discontinued 151. I was really excited when I found this for sale, but probably over eager. I certainly don't want to step DOWN from my Ampeg rig, even though the Ampeg die-hards will say, no matter what, I'm "stepping down" :)

And there's no way I want a "new" rig that is "Low in the Power Handling/Sensitivity Department". Even though I don't know EXACTLY what that means, it doesn't sound good :rollno:
 

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