Replace passive pickups with active emgs?

[Yogen]

I'm about to get a new bass, might be an ltd F-5e or a D-5 or D-5 (the F is like $100+ and only difference is shape), they all come with esp pasive stock pickups and an active preamp.

Now, here's my confusion:
The difference between passive and active on guitars is pretty clear to me, but I'm not so sure on bass. I read somewhere (I think it was in this forum) that active pickups are just pickups connected through a preamp, and that passive cam be turned to active by just adding a preamp. This is where it gets confusing, the preamp is the whole bass preamp or a preamp for each pickup that's "hidden" inside the bass? (no eq controls, etc.).

I believe the esp pickups are the same size as emgs, so that wouldn't be a problem, but do I need any modifications to be done on the bass to get actives working?

I play mostly thrash and death metal, and I'm aiming for an aggressive mids sound, is the reason why I'm thinking on active EMG's, apparently they offer that sound (most bassists with tones I like use them too), but if you think a passive pickup might do the job, please tell me about it.

I know it's a lot, but thank you for reading this, I've been reading and investigating for a long time and still feel like I know norhing about electric bass

 

[sarsippius787]

IMHO I'd leave the bass as it is. The LTD F-5E would sound fine stock. It would cost a whole more to purchase a couple of active EMGs. They are about $99 each. It would cost less to get the ESP LTD F-415FM that comes already with a pair of active EMG 40DC pickups and an EMG pre. I (mostly) play punk, death & thrash metal with all my basses. Full passive, passive/active pre, active & no pre, full blown active 18v. It pretty much comes down to technique and finding your own sound.

 

[line6man]

Now, here's my confusion:
The difference between passive and active on guitars is pretty clear to me, but I'm not so sure on bass. I read somewhere (I think it was in this forum) that active pickups are just pickups connected through a preamp, and that passive cam be turned to active by just adding a preamp. This is where it gets confusing, the preamp is the whole bass preamp or a preamp for each pickup that's "hidden" inside the bass? (no eq controls, etc.).

Active pickups, and onboard preamps both qualify as "active," because they require battery power. An active bass can have either, or in some cases, both.

I play mostly thrash and death metal, and I'm aiming for an aggressive mids sound, is the reason why I'm thinking on active EMG's, apparently they offer that sound (most bassists with tones I like use them too), but if you think a passive pickup might do the job, please tell me about it.

There is no inherent tonal difference between active and passive, except for the lack of "tone suck" from long runs of instrument cable, when the signal is buffered. Choose your pickups based on their voicing, not whether or not they are active.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

There is no inherent tonal difference between active and passive, except for the lack of "tone suck" from long runs of instrument cable, when the signal is buffered. Choose your pickups based on their voicing, not whether or not they are active.

^
BIG + 1 to that


Some of the passives out there can be just as hot (sometimes hotter) than active bass pickups. I have a set of DiMarzio Will Power Middle pickups in my custom P and they are VERY hot pickups that are totally passive. You've got so many options for adjusting your output from the bass that you really only need to pick based on tone and that's it. A lot of onboard preamps are very transparent in what they do to the tone of the pickups. My Bartolini NTMB-3 is astoundingly good in this regard, the character of the pickups still come through but it just makes them sound somehow better...hard to describe, but it just seems like it adds some shimmer and grit to make the pickups more alive sounding.

I'd go with what the other guy said, get the one with the EMGs and preamp already in there, it's worth it to save yourself the time and hassle of putting them in yourself or paying an arm and leg to get someone else to.

 

[edpal]

I have to disagree with the concept that there is no difference between active pickups and passives with a pre-amp.

Passives rely on much stronger magnets and produce a low level signal with a different frequency drop-off amongst other things.

True actives use much weaker magnets and are charged by the battery, not the tone circuit(which is not a pre-amp). In fact, you can wire up virtually any active with no tone circuit at all, not even a volume control - but you will still need a battery. The tone circuit on an active works with the higher voltage being ran through the pickups. Active EQ works much differently than the tone circuit on passives. With a passive the tone circuit is "subtractive" only...turning down the tone doesn't add bass, it subtracts treble leaving bass. The an active EQ you can add or subtract the particular EQ range.

They do not sound the same in many cases. The newest EMGs claim to be wound to achieve a pickup pattern which is closer to passives for tone reasons.

Actives are usually considered brighter or hifi. Passives are usually not as bright, a little thicker/darker tone.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
The volume control can be taken out and all would still be fine and active.

 

[line6man]

I have to disagree with the concept that there is no difference between active pickups and passives with a pre-amp.

Passives rely on much stronger magnets and produce a low level signal with a different frequency drop-off amongst other things.

True actives use much weaker magnets and are charged by the battery, not the tone circuit(which is not a pre-amp). In fact, you can wire up virtually any active with no tone circuit at all, not even a volume control - but you will still need a battery. The tone circuit on an active works with the higher voltage being ran through the pickups. Active EQ works much differently than the tone circuit on passives. With a passive the tone circuit is "subtractive" only...turning down the tone doesn't add bass, it subtracts treble leaving bass. The an active EQ you can add or subtract the particular EQ range.

They do not sound the same in many cases. The newest EMGs claim to be wound to achieve a pickup pattern which is closer to passives for tone reasons.

Actives are usually considered brighter or hifi. Passives are usually not as bright, a little thicker/darker tone.

This is not true. Many actives are simply "passive" high impedance pickups, with onboard buffering. There are not a lot of "true active" pickups out there with low impedance windings.

And the coils are not connected to the battery in any way. They typically feed an opamp, which supplies no DC voltage.

 

[edpal]

This is not true. Many actives are simply "passive" high impedance pickups, with onboard buffering. There are not a lot of "true active" pickups out there with low impedance windings.

And the coils are not connected to the battery in any way. They typically feed an opamp, which supplies no DC voltage.

Please take a look at the link I provided....follow the grounds, follow the hots, this is how modern actives work. Then go to EMG's wiring page if you're still not convinced. Virtually ALL actives made in last 5-10 years are charged by the battery and do not inherently NEED a tone circuit or volume control. FYI

 

[line6man]

Please take a look at the link I provided....follow the grounds, follow the hots, this is how modern actives work. Then go to EMG's wiring page if you're still not convinced. Virtually ALL actives made in last 5-10 years are charged by the battery and do not inherently NEED a tone circuit or volume control. FYI

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Your link is just a wiring diagram, not a schematic for the circuit.

The battery connection likely goes to the opamps' positive supply terminals. That powers the transistors in the IC, but everything is coupled so that no DC voltage is present at the differential inputs or the output. The pickup coils are not seeing a DC offset.

 

[edpal]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Your link is just a wiring diagram, not a schematic for the circuit.

The battery connection likely goes to the opamps' positive supply terminals. That powers the transistors in the IC, but everything is coupled so that no DC voltage is present at the differential inputs or the output. The pickup coils are not seeing a DC offset.

You obviously didn't look at the link. That wiring diagram is an adequate replacement for a schematic in this case as there are no components that need values to be indicated. You should know that that is the main difference between a wiring diagram and a schematic. Nothing is missing. This is how modern actives are wired. No other circuit is needed.

 

[Handyman]

Please take a look at the link I provided....follow the grounds, follow the hots, this is how modern actives work. Then go to EMG's wiring page if you're still not convinced. Virtually ALL actives made in last 5-10 years are charged by the battery and do not inherently NEED a tone circuit or volume control. FYI

I think you're confused about why the power supply rails are being run into EMG pickups.

EMG's have very weak magnets, which produces a very weak signal at the coil's terminals. These are run into the input of a preamp implemented with an opamp. The 9v battery is used to power the opamp.

Shorting 9v supply across the pickup coils would only serve to turn your pickups into a small space heater.

 

[edpal]

I think you're confused about why the power supply rails are being run into EMG pickups.

EMG's have very weak magnets, which produces a very weak signal at the coil's terminals. These are run into the input of a preamp implemented with an opamp. The 9v battery is used to power the opamp.

Shorting 9v supply across the pickup coils would only serve to turn your pickups into a small space heater.

Another person I have to ask - have you looked at a wiring diagram for a modern active pickup, not a passive with a pre-amp strapped to it? Please examine a few.

Nobody said the entire 9 volts is running through there unthrottled.

 

[Handyman]

Another person I have to ask - have you looked at a wiring diagram for a modern active pickup, not a passive with a pre-amp strapped to it? Please examine a few.

Which pickups are you refering to? What you describe is not only not how EMGs work, but just doesn't work from a technical point of view.

All active magnetic pickups are "a passive with a pre-amp strapped to it". They differ in the strength of the magnet and number of windings, but the theory of operation is identical.

 

[SplinteredSkull]

I have a LTD F104 with the active preamp and the passive pickups, and i also play death metal and thrash. And i actually love the sound of the stock pickups- i don't feel any need to change them. If you got active pickups you would have to have a 2nd battery to power them.

 

[line6man]

You obviously didn't look at the link. That wiring diagram is an adequate replacement for a schematic in this case as there are no components that need values to be indicated. You should know that that is the main difference between a wiring diagram and a schematic. Nothing is missing. This is how modern actives are wired. No other circuit is needed.

The diagram does not show you how the circuit onboard the pickup works, to back up your claim that the coils are "charged" by the battery.

I've found a schematic on Google, but it's quite small, so it's difficult to see. You can still make out a coupling capacitor that blocks DC from reaching the coils, however.

 

[edpal]

Which pickups are you refering to? What you describe is not only not how EMGs work, but just doesn't work from a technical point of view.

All active magnetic pickups are "a passive with a pre-amp strapped to it". They differ in the strength of the magnet and number of windings, but the theory of operation is identical.

Ok, I will agree they have a pre-amp, but the windings and lower magnets change a large amount of how they work. PAssives create a current through induction - the strings whipping in the magnetic field excites electrons and makes them move. True actives pickup through sensing the changes in resistance caused by the string moving through the magnetic field of the actively, charged coils. That is a completely difference electromechanical concept. Albeit the resulting sound is very similar.

 

[jamminology101]

Subtractive is always better than boosting anyways...frequencies that r boosted are done "artificially" in relation to the original signal. Eq ing 101.

 

[Handyman]

Ok, I will agree they have a pre-amp, but the windings and lower magnets change a large amount of how they work. PAssives create a current through induction - the strings whipping in the magnetic field excites electrons and makes them move. True actives pickup through sensing the changes in resistance caused by the string moving through the magnetic field of the actively, charged coils. That is a completely difference electromechanical concept. Albeit the resulting sound is very similar.

Can you provide a commercially availaible example of what you consider a "true active pickup"?

 

[edpal]

Subtractive is always better than boosting anyways...frequencies that r boosted are done "artificially" in relation to the original signal. Eq ing 101.

There is that. Better is slightly subjective but is fairly well accepted. Cranking active EQs can get a bit weird sounding,for sure.

OP - try out different pickups maybe on factory built basses. There are lots of good examples of both camps. PArticularly EMGs, everybody is using those it seems.

 

[jamminology101]

Thats an excellent point...passives actually " create" the current....

 

[jamminology101]

MEC and EMG are the two big ones that come to my mind...