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Replacement driver frustration

giantjerk

giantjerk

Jan 18, 2003
650
13
59
Allen, TX
#1
Since the beginning of the year I have been considering downsizing my cab. Current set up is an Epifani UL 502 head and Epifani 212T (4 ohm) cab. I recently downsized from an SUV to a sedan and I often play gigs at places on the second floor with no elevator. The 212 is a tight fit in the sedan back seat and lugging it up stairs is not fun.

I found an Ampeg BSE 115T used locally, at a VERY reasonable price and its an 8 ohm cab. I do some research and find that a common driver swap into this cab is a 4 ohm Eminence Kappa 15C.

The brand spankin new Eminence arrives today, I have a couple spare minutes so I pull the old driver, new one drops right in, literally took me no longer than 5 minutes. So I power up my amp, use as little volume as necessary and I am treated to the worst, buzzy, fuzzy, loose rattle sound I have ever heard. I double check everything and the terrible sound quality persists. So I hook up an alternate sound source and the sound is just as bad. High end is ok, low end is terrible.

When I was holding the new driver, scratching my head trying to figure out what is wrong, I tapped the edge of the cone and there is a distinct flappy/rattle sound. Tap the old cone and I get the usual solid thump sound, same thing with my 212 cab. I am fortunate enough, in all my years of playing to never have blown a speaker. Once I had the edge of a cone come loose by the mounting ring and it kinda sounds like that which really is my only reference.

So, I have alot of experience in a lot of things, diagnosing a bad driver is not one of them. I contacted the vendor and they have agree to a refund or replacement driver, my choice. I have not decided what to do yet but can someone tell me what is up with this brand new driver?
 
#2
giantjerk said:
Since the beginning of the year I have been considering downsizing my cab. Current set up is an Epifani UL 502 head and Epifani 212T (4 ohm) cab. I recently downsized from an SUV to a sedan and I often play gigs at places on the second floor with no elevator. The 212 is a tight fit in the sedan back seat and lugging it up stairs is not fun.

I found an Ampeg BSE 115T used locally, at a VERY reasonable price and its an 8 ohm cab. I do some research and find that a common driver swap into this cab is a 4 ohm Eminence Kappa 15C.

The brand spankin new Eminence arrives today, I have a couple spare minutes so I pull the old driver, new one drops right in, literally took me no longer than 5 minutes. So I power up my amp, use as little volume as necessary and I am treated to the worst, buzzy, fuzzy, loose rattle sound I have ever heard. I double check everything and the terrible sound quality persists. So I hook up an alternate sound source and the sound is just as bad. High end is ok, low end is terrible.

When I was holding the new driver, scratching my head trying to figure out what is wrong, I tapped the edge of the cone and there is a distinct flappy/rattle sound. Tap the old cone and I get the usual solid thump sound, same thing with my 212 cab. I am fortunate enough, in all my years of playing to never have blown a speaker. Once I had the edge of a cone come loose by the mounting ring and it kinda sounds like that which really is my only reference.

So, I have alot of experience in a lot of things, diagnosing a bad driver is not one of them. I contacted the vendor and they have agree to a refund or replacement driver, my choice. I have not decided what to do yet but can someone tell me what is up with this brand new driver?
Click to expand...

Grab it by the magnet and shake the driver- if it rattles, it would seem that the voice coil former may have come loose, usually due to being dropped. What was the condition of the shipping box?
 
#4
The external shipping box was not damaged. However, I found the method of boxing a little odd.

In the original Eminence box the driver was placed face down on nothing but the bottom of the cardboard box. The magnet was surrounded by expanding foam in a plastic bag. The Eminence box was then placed in a larger box, driver face down and packing material placed on top of the Eminence box.

This means that the face of the driver was only protected by the two cardboard boxes, no other packing material.
 
#6
The external shipping box was not damaged. However, I found the method of boxing a little odd.

In the original Eminence box the driver was placed face down on nothing but the bottom of the cardboard box. The magnet was surrounded by expanding foam in a plastic bag. The Eminence box was then placed in a larger box, driver face down and packing material placed on top of the Eminence box.

This means that the face of the driver was only protected by the two cardboard boxes, no other packing material.
 
#8
Shipping damage from being dropped. As for the packing, I've seen that from Eminence before and as long as nothing pokes through the cardboard into the face of the woofer it seems to be decently protected. Any extra protection would not have prevented the damage.
 
#9
I'd get a refund and put the original Ampeg driver back in. You're not going to get any more power into a single 115 by doing a driver swap like that, and it's useless to try to put more wattage into a cab that can't take it. Making small cabs run at 4 ohms so they can take the "full power" of a head is just plain useless.
 
#11
+1.
the 3015 (non LF) is a great speaker. and IMO, another one to consider is a faital 15PR400, which is louder with less watts than the 3015 and also comes in 4 or 8 ohms.

IME, the 4 ohm Kappa 15C is one of the worst sounding speakers that eminence makes. it has a hard and harsh +12db spike at 1700hz, and has no real low end, even when they're working properly. take a look at it's freq chart:

kappa15Cfreqchart.jpg


the 3015 and 15PR400 are also more efficient than the Kappa 15C.
 
#13
Hey guys, this additional information is exactly what I was looking for. The company I purchased the driver from is willing to refund my money, replace the driver or apply the funds to another driver. I'm up in the air as to what to do. Also considering a Schroeder 1210, played one a while ago, really liked it and I can't beat the small size.
 
#14
johnk_10 said:
IME, the 4 ohm Kappa 15C... has no real low end, even when they're working properly. take a look at it's freq chart:

kappa15Cfreqchart.jpg
Click to expand...
That chart is measured in a standard test baffle, so it's only accurate above 150Hz. The 3015 rolloff below 150Hz is almost identical. A driver must be modeled in an actual cab to predict low frequency response, which, BTW, for the Kappa isn't bad. The problem lies in the paltry 2.4mm xmax, so it's really only good with a low power tube amp.
the 3015 and 15PR400 are also more efficient than the Kappa 15C.
Click to expand...
At three times the price. You do get what you pay for. The OP's problem sounds like a surround glue line defect. It happens.
 
#15
billfitzmaurice said:
That chart is measured in a standard test baffle, so it's only accurate above 150Hz. The 3015 rolloff below 150Hz is almost identical. A driver must be modeled in an actual cab to predict low frequency response, which, BTW, for the Kappa isn't bad. The problem lies in the paltry 2.4mm xmax, so it's really only good with a low power tube amp. At three times the price. You do get what you pay for. The OP's problem sounds like a surround glue line defect. It happens.
Click to expand...

yeah, well one of my buddies had a Kappa 15C in a fliptops 115 cab, that was made for his vintage SVT (which BTW, is a very nice cab) and we both agreed that it sounded terrible and had NO low end. so much so that he thought that his head had issues. to compare it, we plugged his head into a couple of my other cabs and his head sounded great.
 
#20
giantjerk said:
Hey guys, this additional information is exactly what I was looking for. The company I purchased the driver from is willing to refund my money, replace the driver or apply the funds to another driver. I'm up in the air as to what to do. Also considering a Schroeder 1210, played one a while ago, really liked it and I can't beat the small size.
Click to expand...

If it were me, I'd get the 3015
I am not a huge Schroeder fan and even with this plan you still have a 1x15 with a reasonably lame speaker with limited XMAX
 

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