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Replacement speakers for SVT-210HE

J

jmjbassplayer

Justin Meldal-Johnsen
Gold Supporting Member
Mar 25, 2005
4,014
3,599
#1
Hi,

I've got a clubbing/rehearsal rig that consists of an SVP-Pro, a QSC PLX-3402, and an SVT 410HLF. I play a Geddy Jazz w/ DiMarzio Model J's and a Gibson Thunderbird and RD Artist, and my tone is punchy with some grind and liberal dashes of effects. I've got a custom-wired 4ohm SVT-210HE coming my way to complete this rig. I'd like to probably replace the speakers at some point in the 210 (and maybe the 410 as well down the road because I love the box so much). What would someone recommend from Eminence to throw in there to give it some great power handling while still retaining some of that cool grit that the Eminence's that Ampeg uses? Are Deltas a good option? They seem to handle a lot more wattage than the standard SVT speakers.

Another question with two parts, hopefully from people that have some familiarity with the inherent tone of my rig: Rather than Ampeg, what would be a good cab from Aguilar to complement the SVT410 HLF? A 210? A 212? And the same question regarding Schroeder? a 1210?

Thanks so much!
JMJ
 
#2
Just to clarify a bit more: perhaps you're getting the idea that I don't want anything too big or heavy as a second cab for this system. If I don't end up just replacing the speakers in the SVT210, I want a cab that is fairly portable (meaning not more than 65 - 70 lbs. or so) from Ampeg, Aguilar or Schroeder to complement that 410.

Thanks in advance,
JMJ
 
#3
jmjbassplayer said:
Rather than Ampeg, what would be a good cab from Aguilar to complement the SVT410 HLF? A 210? A 212? And the same question regarding Schroeder? a 1210?
Click to expand...

Can't speak about the Schroeders, but until recently I played an SVT 210HE (only sold it to get a 4-ohm 210). At the time I purchased it, I A/B'ed it against an Aguilar 210... in fact, I'd gone down to the shop with the express intention of picking up that Aguilar, and I walked out of there with the Ampeg.

It just sounded bigger/deeper/more full. Arguably less "defined" I guess, in that it didn't have that upper-midrange honk that I personally don't like about so many 'modern' cabs and amps (Eden, SWR, Aguilar, IME), but overall I remember feeling that the 210HE was just a more musical cabinet than the Aguilar. FYI, this was with a Kern/2402 rig at the time.
 
#4
Greg,

I'm down with that concept of how the Ampeg sounded to you, I totally relate. Likewise, I really don't get off on the modern sounds, they simply don't rock me, nor do they rock most any artist I've worked with in the past 5 - 10 years, interestingly. Artists and producers seem to crave murkier, darker, thuddier tones all the time...I know that if I hear the sizzle of a tweeter or a "DI-like" sound in a music store, club, whatever, I panic and tend to run for the exit. :-) One Grammy-winning producer I work with here in LA is known to get on the talkback without hesitation and imitate the sound of a very loud siren and tell bass players to "pull over" if he hears any popping, slapping, or any string noise to speak of over, say, 12K on a session. Hilarious! Anyway, the 'cleanliness' grates on me a bit, which I'm certain is a polar opposite to many other peoples' points of view on this board and elsewhere, but that's what makes music and the gear used to create it a highly subjective and beautiful thing.

But I digress.

I have an Aguilar GS112NT that sounds good in the studio as an alternate speaker for my B-15, and it sits temporarily in this gear mix. Unfortunately, even when their volumes are matched at a medium-low level, the Aguliar just doesn't even fit in tonally with this SVT 410 HLF. It actually sounds a little too soft and surprisingly not deep enough...the midrange is the only benefit, that's why I was thinking a GS212 might be a better fit. But if I have them both nice and low and I listen, it's just obvious that the Ampeg cabinets are more my sound, lack of definition and all...I just wish there were some other options, especially since that 210 is probably not going to have enough juice for me...hence my idea of simply trying some other Eminence drivers in the same box.

I keep hearing that the Schroeders live in that world of very forward, punchy sound...they LOOK suspiciously hi-fi to me. :-) But I tell you, I went to Jorg Schroeder's and tried one out (a 410), and it sounded very good indeed. Clean, but definitely not hyped in that SWR sort of way. Just hard to tell how it would blend with the Ampeg stuff because I didn't have any of it with me. I'm feeling that an Aguilar 212 might be a cool match, though, just by simply being able to create more bass than a 112 and having less resistance at 4 ohms.

Anyone else have any tips? I mean, I might just get this 210 as is and love it, even if it breaks up a bit too soon. I just wish that my bandmates weren't so loud in rehearsal and clubs. On tour it's different, 'cuz I rock the big stuff and the "volume competition" is over before it starts. ;-)

Thanks again,
JMJ
 
#7
I guess the question would be do you want 8 or 4 ohms for the overall impedance of the cab? Choosing 4 ohms greatly increases your driver selection since you can use two 8 ohm speakers, but it doesn't allow for expandability unless you're using an SVT. I saw a 4 ohm Faital driver that isn't badly priced that would likely work well in that cab...the 10FE200.
 
#8
I would go for the original 8 Ohms since have two of these cabinets. Parallel connection of them both yields then 4 Ohms. In the original wiring of the cab they have two 4 Ohm drivers in series. On another threat there was a claim that Eminence Alpha 10 would be the best match for the T/S parameters of the original VST-driver!? Is this true, and would it be possible to obtain the driver parameters from somewhere?? Unfortunately, Eminence Alpha 10 is only available in 8 Ohms, and thus no possibility to have two of them giving 8 Ohms together :( Any other ideas? Is that Faital driver well matched to the original VST?
 
#9
OK: Here are the facts... ;)

I am running almost that very rig (from time to time) - An EBS 1V2 preamp into a QSC PLX 1804 or 3602. One or two speakers; either a single Ampeg SVT-210HE, a single SVT-410HLF, both 210 + 410 or two SVT-410HLF.

The SVT-210HE uses the very same 4 Ohm drivers as the SVT-410HLF of its time. The newer (Asian) SVT-410HLF use a different (brighter) 10" speaker but that was after the production of the 210 was ended as far as I know.

The 10" are connected in series in the 210, yielding a 8 Ohm load. In the 410 they are series/parallel, yelding 4 Ohm total load. A 210 connected in parallel with the 410 will get exactly the same voltage and current (= power) per driver as the 410 has. Perfect match!

Good luck!

On a side note - the 210 can play pretty loud given you have enough amp to push it. My LMII will hit the soft limiter before the cab runs out of steam.

EDIT: I just realized the thread is from 2005... :o
 
#10
In my case, the "darker" 210 on top of the "brighter" 410 gives a lot of additional low and low mid support. I suspect an even better combination would be a "dark" 410 + a "bright" 210 (a 210 configuration that was not built). That would focus more highs closer to my ears.

And by the way - I am actually gigging my gear so it is not a "living room rig"... ;)

The Eminence driver closest to the original Ampeg would be the BP102.
 
#11
But the BP102 only reaches 2k for the highs, which is unacceptable for me. The reason I suggested the Faital is because the frequency response is way closer to the 5k that Ampeg 10" cabs normally hit. It likely won't be a dead-nuts match, and I haven't modeled it, but I see no reason it wouldn't work. Maybe someone who modeled it might have a different opinion, but I'm thinking it's a really good choice for a 210he based on the specs.
 
#12
It seems the 10FE200 is more of a lighter duty speaker with its 1 1/2" voice coil. Qts is also a bit too high for this application, IMHO.
The original drivers in the 210HE would be hard to replace without sacrificing a great deal of bass extension and power handling.

I also have a 210 loaded with Deltalite II 2510 and I must admit that is a more flexible and efficient solution for smaller gigs. It is also noticably louder in the mids. The 210HE has more of its own character. Great if you like it, not so great if you don't.
 
#13
The 10FE200 does have a small voice coil but it has good xmax for a ceramic 10"...4.7mm. I don't know...I have to admit I'm just guessing whether it would work or not since I don't know how to model cabs, but seems to me like it would be good. Kind of resembles a typical Ampeg speaker, too.
 
#14
Sorry, I forgot myself away for a while. Thanks for all the information so far.

The Eminence bp102-4 looks really a good chooce if the T/H parameters are even close to the original VST driver. 210HE has a horn, so dropping off around 2 kHz is no problem.

Here is the whole story: as I said, I have two of Ampeg 210. One is newer 210HE classic and other one old 210-pro with higher power rating and two 16 Ohm drivers in parallel, opposite to the 210HE having two 4 Ohms in series. However, the pro-model is lacking the character of 210HE which Alexander also mentioned. It is lacking lots of bass and the highs are harsh compared to HE. I assume the drivers have to be somehow damaged since the difference is so huge. That's why planning to replace the speakers in Pro version with similar to HE. And so far the bp102-4 sounds like the best choice. Any experience if they can reproduce any of the 210HE original character?

Ps. The threat is indeed from 2005 but I accidently woked it again. So I'm the one to blame for that ;)
 
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