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Replica build, decals, and morality
- Thread starter Plectrum72
- Start date
This doesn't exist either. A Miata with vintage Mercedes accents! So is it a replica (no), bulding something that doesn't exist, or what? I mean, they've clearly got the Mercedes logo on it, right?
Trying to make a non-Fender appear to be an actual Fender is dissonant, yes.
Here's how I draw the distinctions between these basses (or guitars, for that matter) in these debates.
1. Fender (or any other well-known brand) logo on a bass/guitar from an Asian website complete with trademarked logos: Complete counterfeit knock-off. Excellent chance it'll be sold again, most likely to someone who doesn't know the real differences between a counterfeit and a genuine bass/guitar. Intended to deceive, nothing more.
2. User/owner putting a Fender decal on a parts bass/guitar or on a Squier, ect: A poser. Someone who may as well but a Mercedes emblem on a Toyota. The owner is free to do with their bass/guitar as he (or she) wishes, but the "I'll never sell it!" comment is questionable. Owner may very well remove the decal or worse, leave it and dislose the real story to a new buyer, but then there's a decent chance that sooner or later it'll be on the market to (owner dies, ect.) be sold again, most likely to someone who doesn't know the real differences between a counterfeit and a genuine bass/guitar and likely won't know enough to take it apart and look for markings.
3. A "replica": Built by a professional luthier (Kris Derrig's Slash Les Paul for example), with "Made by Kris Derrig, Los Angeles, CA" along with a unique serial number, both stamped into the wood on the back of the headstock: This guitar/bass, especially when given to a well-known artist, and has a slim chance of being sold, and even then with the above-mentioned stampings wouldn't pass the "real" test. I don't really like the use of "Gibson" and the headstock shape, but what can you do?
4. A "tribute": Built by a professional luthier or an amateur enthusiast to period-correct specs (Ken Boudreau's 1957 Black Beauty Les Paul for example or Ron Kirn's work) and identical in every aspect except the headstock shape or barring that, no name on the headstock except their brand name or initials and a unique serial number. No chance of this being confused with a genuine item.
Obviously there's a alot of overlapping gray area here, but this is just my $0.02.
1. Fender (or any other well-known brand) logo on a bass/guitar from an Asian website complete with trademarked logos: Complete counterfeit knock-off. Excellent chance it'll be sold again, most likely to someone who doesn't know the real differences between a counterfeit and a genuine bass/guitar. Intended to deceive, nothing more.
2. User/owner putting a Fender decal on a parts bass/guitar or on a Squier, ect: A poser. Someone who may as well but a Mercedes emblem on a Toyota. The owner is free to do with their bass/guitar as he (or she) wishes, but the "I'll never sell it!" comment is questionable. Owner may very well remove the decal or worse, leave it and dislose the real story to a new buyer, but then there's a decent chance that sooner or later it'll be on the market to (owner dies, ect.) be sold again, most likely to someone who doesn't know the real differences between a counterfeit and a genuine bass/guitar and likely won't know enough to take it apart and look for markings.
3. A "replica": Built by a professional luthier (Kris Derrig's Slash Les Paul for example), with "Made by Kris Derrig, Los Angeles, CA" along with a unique serial number, both stamped into the wood on the back of the headstock: This guitar/bass, especially when given to a well-known artist, and has a slim chance of being sold, and even then with the above-mentioned stampings wouldn't pass the "real" test. I don't really like the use of "Gibson" and the headstock shape, but what can you do?
4. A "tribute": Built by a professional luthier or an amateur enthusiast to period-correct specs (Ken Boudreau's 1957 Black Beauty Les Paul for example or Ron Kirn's work) and identical in every aspect except the headstock shape or barring that, no name on the headstock except their brand name or initials and a unique serial number. No chance of this being confused with a genuine item.
Obviously there's a alot of overlapping gray area here, but this is just my $0.02.
Ha!
I'd put the Fender logo on with "built by [whateveryournameis]" with it. You're a Fender fan, right? That's why you wand the name on the axe.
Have fun,
Actually I did/do. As I said in the OP though, I'm interested in opinions out of a combination of curiosity and boredom. I don't expect anyone will make me change my mind though.
I do like a combination of Binary1's 3rd and 4th argument though. I can stamp "Assembled in the U.S.A. by ________________" right underneath the Warmoth logo/decal on the reverse of the headstock.
I don't expect anyone to change their opinion anymore than I expect to change mine. I am enjoying the discourse though. And I've conceded from the get go it is not a gen-u-ine Fender product.
I love that there are such strong opinions on this. If you're building this for personal use, have at it.
And to all those who are so worried about future sellers selling this or anything else as a Fender; caveat emptor. It's the buyers responsibility to know what they are buying.
And to all those who are so worried about future sellers selling this or anything else as a Fender; caveat emptor. It's the buyers responsibility to know what they are buying.
I've already made up my mind that I'm doing this, but I'm curious (and a little bored), what is the TB community's take is on this?
I'm building a Warmoth shortscale (30") replica of an 80s MIJ Fender Jazz Bass Special. I'll be adding some wood to the headstock to get the correct Fender shape. My plan is to put the Warmoth water slide decal on the back of the headstock where a s/n would normally be and Fender JBS decal on the front of the headstock.
Thoughts?
By the time I'm done, it would probably have been cheaper to buy a Jazz Bass Special, but they don't come in 30" scale
*edited to correct spelling
Hey Plectrum, IDK what's the deal but I enjoy this thread prety much! Go get some fake decals and buy me a six pack!
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
- 5,784
- 6,819
- Disclosures
- Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
Fender got their money from the Warmoth license agreement. There should be absolutely no restrictions on what you do with it. Having said that, I would put your own brand on the front (they don't really like that either).
The whole discussion reminds me of the market for replica kit cars. Lots of fake Shelby Cobra clones out there and, like your bass, some probably far outperform the original.
The whole discussion reminds me of the market for replica kit cars. Lots of fake Shelby Cobra clones out there and, like your bass, some probably far outperform the original.
Last edited:
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
- 5,784
- 6,819
- Disclosures
- Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
There are alternatives to decals that also work on dark tropical hardwoods.
This thread is suprisingly civilized for a decal thread!
I love the look of a Fender headstock and the Fender decal is a big part of it. IF I built a Fender-type instrument, I would likely use a Fender Decal for that look. I would be sure to have enough on the neck to indicate it is NOT a Fender. I don't sell my instruments. I have no interest in deceiving anyone. If I like the look and build it so I can enjoy the look, I will do so.
I have had MANY Fenders in my life...68 Tele (which I still have), 65 Mustang, 68 Jazz bass, 68 Tele bass, 64 P bass, 90's 5 string Jazz, etc, plus a bunch of Fender amps. Unfortunately, other than the Mustang, I bought all used, so Fender really didn't make much off me.
I was an authorized Fender tech, silver level, in electric and acoustic guitars as well as Fender amps for many decades.
If I put a Fender label on an instrument, it is a nod of thanks and a tribute to Fender, not a deception. It's for my enjoyment and that's all I do any of this music thing for.
I have had MANY Fenders in my life...68 Tele (which I still have), 65 Mustang, 68 Jazz bass, 68 Tele bass, 64 P bass, 90's 5 string Jazz, etc, plus a bunch of Fender amps. Unfortunately, other than the Mustang, I bought all used, so Fender really didn't make much off me.
I was an authorized Fender tech, silver level, in electric and acoustic guitars as well as Fender amps for many decades.
If I put a Fender label on an instrument, it is a nod of thanks and a tribute to Fender, not a deception. It's for my enjoyment and that's all I do any of this music thing for.
I had an 80's Randall head...SS covered in gray rat's fur.
I built a matching 4X12 and put in four Celestion Greenbacks...all Ipswitch, not Chinese.
I wrote to Randall, and sent them a picture of the amp and cabinet, and said I'd like to buy a Randall emblem for the cabinet I built.
They sent me a logo, that matched the head, for nothing.
Randall had no problems with putting a Randall logo on a cabinet I built. They sent me a logo with a very nice letter.
I built a matching 4X12 and put in four Celestion Greenbacks...all Ipswitch, not Chinese.
I wrote to Randall, and sent them a picture of the amp and cabinet, and said I'd like to buy a Randall emblem for the cabinet I built.
They sent me a logo, that matched the head, for nothing.
Randall had no problems with putting a Randall logo on a cabinet I built. They sent me a logo with a very nice letter.
If you work for Fender and you build a bass, by all means label it a Fender, and wear whatever corporate T-shirt you feel like.
If you make a bass, it is your bass, not Fender's. Make your own logo, and put it on both your bass and your T-shirt.
